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    Funerals

    I was musing yesterday on the subject of funerals (while I was at one - covered in the 27 years on thread). I've been to a lot of funerals since I moved to Romania and there is a fairly standard way of doing things (whatever the religion involved - and all of them have involved a religion - Catholic, Hungarian reformed (Calvinist), and Romanian Orthodox). The ceremony takes place in a small open sided chapel in the cemetery. It is preceded by the close family of the deceased standing around the coffin (which is sometimes open other times closed), and the mourners arrive and walk round the coffin, offer their condolences to the family, and then go and stand somewhere. The priest shows up, and there is a fairly short service which includes a eulogy, and then the coffin is closed if necessary, and carried to the location of the grave, into which it is lowered, the earth shovelled on top and then all the flowers and wreaths placed on top. On leaving the cemetery everyone is offered a glass of palinka (local spirit) and a slice of "kalacs" (a sort of sweet bread). If you're close to the family and the deceased (or often if you've come far), you then tend to be invited to the lunch which will be usually be in a restaurant, and involve a set meal (soup, meat, dessert)

    What is notable to me about this is that it all happens very soon after the actual death. In the vast majority of cases I have been involved in (either closely or just as a mourner) the funeral has taken place two days after the death, with only a few cases being 3 days later - my father in law died suddenly while staying with us, so (a) there had to be an autopsy; and (b) we had to transport him back to his home town for the funeral and so this was a 3 day one. My experience in the UK suggests that funerals are at least a week later, often closer to two . The question I'm laboriously getting around to is ... Why? Has it always been that way? Have funerals always taken so long, or is it a modern thing? Is there a reason behind it (ie it gives those grieving something to do, to have all the organising in front of them)?

    Muslim funerals in my experience are even faster, a friend of a friend in Turkey died young and suddenly a couple of months ago on a Saturday night and his funeral was on the Sunday afternoon . In general in my limited experience in Muslim countries funerals are the next day. Now there is a possible reason for that in that Muslim countries tend to be very hot ones and it is potentially a very practical need to bury the body as quickly as possible. But is that why? Or are there other cultural/religious reasons?

    #2
    Funerals

    In Britain you need time to hire the DJ and elaborate the poetry reading list.

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      #3
      Funerals

      Vulgarian Visigoth wrote: In Britain you need tim to hire the DJ and elaborate the poetry reading list.
      And I'm very busy. And stop shortening my name...

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        #4
        Funerals

        Don't forget to play Candle In The Wind. That's always a tearjerker.

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          #5
          Funerals

          My uneducated guess is that in warmer or less technologically advanced countries, you want to get that body sorted sharpish before it starts getting ripe. Perhaps that's why Jews tend to be buried the very next day (and Muslims as well, apparently). When my dad died, he was cremated the next day and we held the memorial service a week later. I'd say 3 or four days after death is typical for a burial/viewing type funeral around these parts.

          In the recent cases of Andy Griffith and Leonard Cohen, they were both in the ground before the announcement was even made. IIRC, Griffith was buried the same day he died, in accordance with his wishes.

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            #6
            Funerals

            I like the quick disposal, though I understand the practicalities are challenging. The benefit of a 24 hour turn around being the whole thing isn't overwrought with people traveling long distances. I don't really buy in to all that theatre.

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              #7
              Funerals

              One of my strangest experiences was going to the visitation for a young Greek friend who'd died in a horrible car crash. Not only was it open-casket (!!!), but it was dead quiet in the family area near the casket. As I entered, the family all started wailing on cue and continued until the moment I left the room. I assume it's cultural tradition, but I was there late into the second viewing and it was evident (even to a neophyte) that they were all well and truly fed up with it. I made sure not to hang around long. His recent bride wore black, and I was assured she would for the rest of her life.

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                #8
                Funerals

                In the catholic church, at the service for my dad's funeral, there was one woman who was singing louder than everyone, and crying both too loudly and obviously fake tears. So, she was quietly pulled to one side and told (at the drinks break, I think) to do one sharpish, as she was embarrassing the people who actually knew him (and wouldn't dream of shedding a single tear for the old bastard), and it turns out that she did this for every single funeral that was held at the church. In Glasgow.

                However, we were the only ones who told her to fuck off. A small victory for poor white trash.

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                  #9
                  Funerals

                  As an atheist and not much of a traditionalist, the good thing about a traditional funeral -ironically, given its solemn nature- is the no-nonsense time-tested approach. Some gibberish and down with the cunt. I cringe at the prospect of my closest ones having to come up with poems and speeches and all that carry-on at a time like that. Just bury me already and get done with it. Of course if they want to have a laugh at my all-time lowlights over a few pints, I'm totally fine with that.

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                    #10
                    Funerals

                    One interesting thing on practicalities these days is distance - lots more people than in the past have to travel from different countries and continents, which can be a logistical nightmare. Which means that I've seen, recently, a few cases of immediate burial/cremation without much ceremony, followed by a proper wake and memorial much later, often several months.

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                      #11
                      Funerals

                      I was going to mention the distance thing. Also, it does depend upon the availability pf both undertakers and the church/cemetery/crematorium.

                      I'm struggling to get the timelines quite right in my head but I'm fairly sure that my parents were buried about a week after they died.

                      My mum died at home and then we had a full funeral mass in our church then internment in Brookwood. My dad died in hospital and then we just had an internment at Brookwood, no service elsewhere. Though a friend of my dad did sort a choir for us. An amateur one as the pro's said Song for Athena was too complicated to learn. (god I'm an idiot, I still worry that people - and there were only a dozen people there at my dads request - would think that we'd chosen it because of Diana not because is combined the words of one of my parents favourite hymns and a composer he loved and took comfort in after my mum died).

                      The small funeral was a direct consequence of my mums funeral. My dad felt it was too much of a community event and didn't allow him or us - my sister and I - space and time to grieve. I do regret this now as it may have been easier for our family and his friends but it must have been harder for his parishioners.

                      Sorry, I've drifted. A week or so may be fairly standard in the UK I think. Also fairly usual is that the body gets whisked away and not seen again, well not not seen again as close family could view at the undertakers before the funeral but no public viewing.

                      Is it just Russia that lays out the body on a table in the house? Or is even that a slightly antiquated procedure?

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                        #12
                        Funerals

                        My brother's wife is from Nigeria and all her family still live there. When her Grandmother died they didn't have enough money for the funeral they wanted, so they had her embalmed, wrapped her up in a blanket, and stuck the body under the bed in the spare bedroom. She was there for months until her daughter (my brother's mother in law) died and then they decided to have a joint funeral for the pair of them.

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                          #13
                          Funerals

                          In my experience all sorts of things can delay a funeral - getting the death certificate can be one of them, especially when the cunt who has to sign it refuses to drive 9 miles to view the deceased and insists on him being delivered to him instead - which only came to light when the family popped into the undertakers with some clothes for the deceased, only to be told he'd nipped out!

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                            #14
                            Funerals

                            Funerals in Turkey, as ad hoc as already mentioned, almost always happen within 24 hours. This means that if a person passes away early in the morning they can be buried on the same day. Funerals seem to take place after the afternoon call to prayer as well.
                            The family will wash the body of the deceased in the morning and then wrap them in a white sheet. The body would then be placed in a simple pine coffin to be transported to the mosque where the mourners will gather.
                            After the imam has conducted the funeral ceremony outside of the mosque the coffin is then taken to the cemetery, usually a family plot. There the body is buried by the family and close friends, they do actually bury the body and not the gravediggers. First male members of the family would do most of the physical work and then others would be asked to help, much in the same way that we would scatter earth on a coffin.
                            Then people would be invited back to the funeral house for a simple meal to bless the soul, the desert would always be helva.

                            As you can imagine physically burying a family member or friend is an extremely emotional experience, remembering helping to bury my student whilst writing this has brought tears to my eyes.

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                              #15
                              Funerals

                              Burials are done 3-4 days at most in Ireland, I think. Everyone here seems to find the week long wait in the UK (and many have had relatives dying on Big Island) to be barbaric.

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                                #16
                                Funerals

                                Lang Spoon wrote: Burials are done 3-4 days at most in Ireland, I think. Everyone here seems to find the week long wait in the UK (and many have had relatives dying on Big Island) to be barbaric.
                                It is a bit odd here. When my dad died the other year it took about a week to sort the death certificate and legal stuff, I seem to remember - though my memory is a bit mixed of the whole few weeks - and the church that my mum wanted was booked up for a few weeks. As suggested upthread though, that time did become part of a quite useful grieving process, and made it a bit less frantic in inviting the rellys and friends, and sorting the party/wake etc.

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                                  #17
                                  Funerals

                                  It took a couple of weeks to sort out the funeral for my Nan last year.
                                  I don't think this is particularly unusual here. It was the same for my Dad and my Grandad if I recall correctly.

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                                    #18
                                    Funerals

                                    Lang Spoon wrote: Burials are done 3-4 days at most in Ireland, I think. Everyone here seems to find the week long wait in the UK (and many have had relatives dying on Big Island) to be barbaric.
                                    It is really backwards.

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                                      #19
                                      Funerals

                                      Vulgarian Visigoth wrote:
                                      Originally posted by Lang Spoon
                                      Burials are done 3-4 days at most in Ireland, I think. Everyone here seems to find the week long wait in the UK (and many have had relatives dying on Big Island) to be barbaric.
                                      It is really backwards.
                                      Sorry, but why? Why's four days acceptable and seven days 'barbaric'?

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