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    Manchin voted guilty.

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      Over now.

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        Hmm. Occam’s app


        [URL]https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1225167351617712128?s=21[/URL]

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          I think you meant the other thread.

          [URL]https://twitter.com/AriBerman/status/1225167293518315521[/URL]

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            The culchie appeasement of the Electoral College/2 seats per state Senate is the worst thing ever.

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              We never would have gotten a Constitution without it.

              It was designed to be anti-democratic and does a good job

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                Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                I am amazed. Well done, Mitt. That also makes it non-partisan in both houses.
                "Only" on the first count though. Not sure why Romney split his vote.

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                  So Trump is now the only President to have ever had a member of his own party vote to convict him in an impeachment trial.

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                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post

                    "Only" on the first count though. Not sure why Romney split his vote.
                    He still harbours hope of getting to exercise broad presidential powers himself.

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                      He does have a very fine, Presidential even, head of hair.

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                        And now Trump will be out for his revenge.

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                          I assume there's no double jeopardy on impeachment/conviction? Is it theoretically possible that Trump could get reelected and the Senate could change hands and he could be thrown out in his second term? (or third term)

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                            It has never been tested in court, but the legal consensus is that he can definitely be impeached again (even this term), but not with regard to the same allegations

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                              By "same allegations" I assume you mean the content of the "abuse of power" allegation and not the label as such, which they made such a meal of. I realize that's an absurd notion but that appears to be where we are. The pres can abuse power all he wants because legally there's no such thing. Or something.

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                                There's more disagreement about that, though the majority agrees with you.

                                Then again, as there is no prescribed list of "high crimes and misdemeanors", there isn't a compelling reason to re-use a "charge".

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                                  Do you think their choice of how to frame the two articles was misguided or politically/legally ill-advised?

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                                    I don't see any particular reason double jeopardy should (legally) apply at all if it's not explicitly prohibited in the relevant article of the constitution. It's not a criminal trial. Politically it would probably be inadvisable. Not to mention practically impossible.

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                                      If the Dems retook the Senate and cared about integrity, they'd re-impeach and convict him. He remains guilty and the people who elected them and threw out the Republicans would presumably support it. Not that it will ever happen.

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                                        Is it even theoretically, let alone practically, possible for there to be 66 Democrats in the Senate this time round?

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                                          Theoretically, yes

                                          There are 23 GOP seats up this fall

                                          Practically, not a chance in hell

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                                            Maybe it's theoretically possible that some GOPs could be persuaded once the wind was blowing the other way. I think a majority conviction vote would still be a moral victory, but I don't know how that would play out politically.

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                                              If there's a Democratic Senate and Trump also stays in office, something very odd happened in the general election.

                                              But, if there's a Democratic Senate and House and Trump is in office, I think their best bet would be to just make his life utterly miserable rather than impeaching on this again. Wait until he oversteps this badly again on something else.

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                                                Yeah, I was actually just thinking of the Senate going majority Dem, not 2/3 majority Dem, i.e. momentarily forgetting the latter requirement for removal. It's at least conceivable that Bernie the Socialist could be voted down but the Senate could tilt the other way. Or maybe not. It was an idle academic question.

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                                                  Yes, that would be a very perverse result.

                                                  I'm afraid that the chances of re-taking the Senate this cycle are small at best.

                                                  Here is a list of the most competitive races based on the margin last time 'round

                                                  Warner (D-Virginia) 0.8
                                                  Tillis (R-North Carolina) 1.5
                                                  Jones (D-Alabama) 1.7
                                                  Gardner (R-Colorado) 1.9
                                                  Sullivan (R-Alaska) 2.2
                                                  Shaheen (D-New Hampshire) 3.3
                                                  Hyde-Smith (R-Mississippi) 7.2
                                                  Perdue (R-Georgia) 7.7
                                                  Ernst (R-Iowa) 8.3
                                                  Roberts (R-Kansas) 10.6
                                                  Smith (D-Minnesota) 10.6

                                                  If one accepts the conventional wisdom that Jones has virtually zero chance of holding on to his seat, one needs five other GOP seats to fall (four if the VP is a Democrat, given that the VP breaks ties), and it is hard to see where those could come from. McSally (R-Arizona) and Loeffler (R-Georgia) were both appointed by GOP governors to complete GOP terms and are often described as vulnerable, but the seats they hold were won by almost 14 percentage points.

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                                                    Collins not on your list, Ursus?

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