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    For his fantasy middle class tax cut.

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      Couldn't he pass it with 50 plus Pence, like the tax "reform"?

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        AP calls Montana for Tester (the Democratic incumbent)

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          Originally posted by Etienne View Post
          Looks like Tester might sneak a win, which would be a fine result.
          Associated Press say Tester's won. Well done indeed.

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            Tubbs, the Senate Republicans don't support the fantasy middle class tax cut. That's why it is a fantasy.

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              He's just accused a black woman of asking a racist question.

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                He keeps saying "impeach" in a silly voice.

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                  Couldn't he pass it with 50 plus Pence, like the tax "reform"?
                  Can't use reconciliation until the next budget, and it will be even harder than before to claim it's budget neutral unless he slashes programmes popular (or at least 3rd rail-y) among GOP senators.

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                    Ah right. He was talking about in a hypothetical future?

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                      MS13 gang members make an appearance. He's taken out thousands of them.

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                        Originally posted by WOM View Post
                        No, I fear she does not.

                        Listening to As It Happens last night, a Republic woman from CA had me, literally, screaming at my radio. Just stupidity piled on top of ignorance piled on top of racism. And I'm very, very sure the woman's not an anomaly. If you still vote Republican after two years of Trump, you're either stupid or racist or both. It's not because you're 'a conservative' or a patriot or whatever.
                        It's not stupidity per se. A lot of people are just woefully ill-informed and the internet and cable makes it worse because it makes them think they are informed. I hate to generalize, but it appears to be worst among exactly the kind of people in their 60s and 70s that can always be relied upon to vote - they know how to use facebook but they don't know how to use Snopes or factcheck or wikipedia or understand the difference between "peer-reviewed research" and "something somebody told me during coffee-hour at church." Perhaps it was always thus, just the medium of misinformation is faster.

                        I don't think we're really all that much different from Canadians or Europeans. Because we had robber barons who at least built stuff, rather than aristocrats who just sat on their ass, we generally trust capitalists a bit more and trust government a bit less (too many of us haven't figured out that they're the same fucking people.) And something something post-war consensus, devastation of Europe, colonialism vs. domestic slavery, and what not. I just simplified the entire field of western history, 1770-2018, but I think that's basically right.

                        But overall, I think we're all roughly the same. Even the "progressive" Scandinavians are actually a lot more conservative than they seem. It's just what they're trying to conserve happens to be better for a larger percentage of people. They vote for progressive policies because they're worried about losing their own healthcare, education, not because - or certainly not just because - its the right thing to do in a larger sense. As we've seen in Denmark, as soon as it looks like somebody "other" might also be benefiting from those policies, the compassion and bonhomie fade a bit and the racism comes to the fore.

                        Beyond that, it's just a very deep psychological/spiritual problem that plagues all of humanity. Certainly all of the industrialized world. People aren't just afraid of change, they're afraid of loss, not realizing that, at best, we all lose it all in the end anyway, so there's no point in holding on so tight. The counter-culture of the 60s had it basically right. They just did too many drugs and too easily let capitalism co-opt their message.


                        I also sometimes think that the CBC goes out of its way to find the most unhinged Americans they can, because the smug sense of Canadian superiority is a big seller. It goes both ways. Fox et al can always dig up a Canadian economist who thinks free healthcare is a bad idea or find a town that doesn't have enough doctors and pass that off as typical.
                        Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 07-11-2018, 18:56.

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                          I disagree on the comparison to “Europeans” (though any comparison that broad is DOA).

                          Just look at attitudes towards organised religion, guns and climate change.

                          One also should never discount the degree to which people here who are financially comfortable believe that state to be conclusive evidence of their wisdom, rather than the product of luck and favorable macro trends). The plague that is the “prosperity gospel” only encourages them in this.

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                            Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
                            Get fucked, DeMaio.
                            I can't endorse this position strongly enough

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                              Another proud product of Georgetown Prep, fact fans.

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                                I'm much less stressed by this outcome than I was last night. I think at some point yesterday, I had decided it was going to be a spectacular year for Democrats despite evidence suggesting otherwise.

                                +35 House seats, and getting the House is a massive deal
                                +7 Governorships is an absolutely massive deal. And overthrowing Kobach and Walker is absolute gold-dust
                                -3 Senate Seats (assuming FL, AZ and the MS Special all go Republican) is actually about par. I'd just assumed that if FL was lost, then there was no hope in MT and NV. It's going to be grim, because Trump will be able to get all his nominees through unfettered - but it's no worse than expected.

                                It was broadly a very good night on ballot initiatives. 3 states expand Medicaid (Montana didn't, because it was going to be paid for by tobacco taxes and Philip Morris bought the election). A bunch of voting rights stuff (FL4, etc), minimum wages, penal reform stuff passed. On the downside, voter-ID and some "victims rights" bollocks also passed.

                                All round, a pretty good net result, even if a more Republican senate, and Republican governors in FL, GA and OH, will make life a bit more miserable for the country.

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                                  That's good to hear.

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                                    https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1059970926563930112

                                    thread that makes an enjoyable read.

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                                      Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                      I'm much less stressed by this outcome than I was last night. I think at some point yesterday, I had decided it was going to be a spectacular year for Democrats despite evidence suggesting otherwise.

                                      +35 House seats, and getting the House is a massive deal
                                      +7 Governorships is an absolutely massive deal. And overthrowing Kobach and Walker is absolute gold-dust
                                      -3 Senate Seats (assuming FL, AZ and the MS Special all go Republican) is actually about par. I'd just assumed that if FL was lost, then there was no hope in MT and NV. It's going to be grim, because Trump will be able to get all his nominees through unfettered - but it's no worse than expected.

                                      It was broadly a very good night on ballot initiatives. 3 states expand Medicaid (Montana didn't, because it was going to be paid for by tobacco taxes and Philip Morris bought the election). A bunch of voting rights stuff (FL4, etc), minimum wages, penal reform stuff passed. On the downside, voter-ID and some "victims rights" bollocks also passed.

                                      All round, a pretty good net result, even if a more Republican senate, and Republican governors in FL, GA and OH, will make life a bit more miserable for the country.
                                      Agree with all that.

                                      Glad to see that gas tax thing in California failed, for now.

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                                        Sessions gone

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                                          Yeah, second source.

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                                            Also, I think almost all of CA's ballot measures came down the right way. As Inca said, the defeat of Props 5 and 6 is a massive defeat for the anti-tax militants in the state. Props 8 and 10 were ones I was split on. The weird defeat was for a $9 billion bond for water projects. I didn't see anybody campaigning against it.

                                            All of SD's local ballot measures seem to have come out right, too, apart from one which seems to build in a local gerrymander.

                                            Shame that racist corrupt arsehole Duncan Hunter won, but it was incredibly unlikely that he could lose his district. He will, though, be the only Republican congressman in SD County. Which is pretty incredible given the city's reputation a decade or two ago.

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                                              He wants to spend more time with his racism.

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                                                Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
                                                Sessions gone
                                                No surprise.

                                                It's not at all clear that Bob Mueller has anything on Trump, but if he did, he really had to get it published first thing this morning because we knew that this was coming.

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                                                  Statement here

                                                  https://twitter.com/eorden/status/1060257377780408321

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                                                    https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1060258538910613504

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