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    But the point is that it's hard to blame the kids for being ambivalent about voting when the democracy is so undemocratic.

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      I honestly don’t get that sentiment.

      Do you feel the same way about your home country?

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        To a degree, yes.

        I think there's a lot of internet-hate being targeted at the millennials in that piece. While I do find them frustrating, I think that the takeaway from the piece shouldn't be that millennials are all irresponsible and pathetic. It should be that our democracy is fucked and needs to be sorted.

        That said - voting in Britain is trivially easy compared to voting in the US.

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          In the UK you can at least vote for alternative parties if you aren't enthused by the big two.

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            You can here, too.

            It isn't as if they have a chance of winning in all but a handful of UK constituencies.

            The "majorities" that have governed the UK have at times been significantly less "democratic" than those here by SB's methodology.

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              Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
              To a degree, yes.

              I think there's a lot of internet-hate being targeted at the millennials in that piece. While I do find them frustrating, I think that the takeaway from the piece shouldn't be that millennials are all irresponsible and pathetic. It should be that our democracy is fucked and needs to be sorted.
              I'm inclined to agree. I find the entire generational argument — that it's all, somehow, the fault of either the old or the young — pointless and destructive.

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                That is certainly true, as are all the criticisms of the hurdles to voting here.

                I was focusing on the “democratic deficit”, which I personally think is much less important to non-voters than other issues.

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                  I don't think the UK has much to teach to the US when it comes yo those imbalances. Coming from a country where power is a very consensual, broad-church affair it makes me think how this 'winner takes all' stuff is rather depressing...

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                    I think the democratic deficit is just a compounding factor - if it's already an effort to get out and vote (a 2 hour wait in line; a bunch of paperwork to be sent and organised; a frankly bafflingly long ballot where you don't know what half of the jobs are...) then the feeling that your vote anyway isn't worth what it should be might exacerbate your apathy.

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                      A couple of those kids were dumbasses (the Bernie Sanders volunteer who doesn’t understand how party primaries work, for one), but I’d say about half are basically victims of voter suppression, their whole screeds are about how hard it is to register and what a pain in the ass it is to wait hours to vote. That’s the problem there.

                      Several of the others just live in rock solid one party states cities. Trust me, voting in San Francisco is not interesting. The propositions are more interesting, but if you’re a low engagement voter or potential voter like these people, Prop C is not getting you out of bed.

                      The organiser in NYC is clearly a revsoc or an anarchist.

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                        Ah, I was mis-reading you then.

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                          Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                          I'm inclined to agree. I find the entire generational argument — that it's all, somehow, the fault of either the old or the young — pointless and destructive.
                          Yeah can't stand the whole age thing in politics. That we need young, new leaders to look after young people's interest. We need smart people who look out for the common good, for both young and old.

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                            US politics has largely abandoned any sense of a “common good”, which is a significant reason we are where we are.

                            In other news, this is interesting

                            https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1057698731666165761?s=21

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                              Large turnouts usually favour Democrats, yes?

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                                As a general rule, yes.

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                                  Couple of dicy polls for Dean Heller today, by a pollster 538 rate.

                                  Unfortunately, there are a couple of good polls for Scott Walker today too. By a pollster 538 rate.

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                                    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                    US politics has largely abandoned any sense of a “common good”, which is a significant reason we are where we are.

                                    In other news, this is interesting

                                    https://twitter.com/mcpli/status/1057698731666165761?s=21
                                    Holy shit

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                                      Worth a punt on Beto? You can get 10/3.

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                                        The Independent is reporting that early voting by Texan 18-29 year olds is up on 2014 by 500%.

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                                          Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                          Couple of dicy polls for Dean Heller today, by a pollster 538 rate.

                                          Unfortunately, there are a couple of good polls for Scott Walker today too. By a pollster 538 rate.
                                          Ah. If we're playing "individual polls" , there were a couple of fun ones yesterday.

                                          Racist corrupt local shitbox Duncan Hunter is now only 3 points up on PLO-Mexican Ammar Campa-Najjar despite being in one of the Trumpiest parts of California

                                          And Prop 6 now appears to be polling badly. There was one poll where it had a massive lead, but that may have been an outlier.

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                                            Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                            Worth a punt on Beto? You can get 10/3.
                                            3 to 1 is probably about right, even if we do assume that massive early voting leads to high general turnout.

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                                              I did read somewhere that he had raised 70 million bucks and Ted Cruz only 25 million or so. A lot of the Beto money is coming from Cruz haters all over the US. Perhaps he has spent a load of it on a massive Get Out the Vote campaign. If he has changed the voting demographic then you can throw the existing polling models out the window.

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                                                Models do consider money raised. I don't know what they make of Texas' situation.
                                                Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 31-10-2018, 19:52.

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                                                  Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                                  Ah. If we're playing "individual polls" , there were a couple of fun ones yesterday.

                                                  Racist corrupt local shitbox Duncan Hunter is now only 3 points up on PLO-Mexican Ammar Campa-Najjar despite being in one of the Trumpiest parts of California

                                                  And Prop 6 now appears to be polling badly. There was one poll where it had a massive lead, but that may have been an outlier.
                                                  They weren't obvious outliers, the Heller polls. He was down by 3 in each.

                                                  That's the petrol tax thing? Would be good if that didn't pass.

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                                                    Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                                                    The Independent is reporting that early voting by Texan 18-29 year olds is up on 2014 by 500%.
                                                    And Georgia up by 476%.

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