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    Trump's Card

    I'm sure this has been answered before but - can the President be prosecuted for crimes (like obstruction of justice) outside of the impeachment process? And if so, what are the consequences if he gets jailed?

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      Trump's Card

      What's required to strike an Impeachment Committee, like the one Nixon had?

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        Trump's Card

        I'm sure this has been answered before but - can the President be prosecuted for crimes (like obstruction of justice) outside of the impeachment process? And if so, what are the consequences if he gets jailed?
        There's actually a real debate among constitutional law scholars as to the answer to this question.

        I would say that the majority view is that the President is not immune from all criminal prosecution, but there are serious scholars who believe that impeachment is the only avenue available to those who wish to prosecute a President while s/he is in office.

        As to what would happen, it would depend on the sentence. If the President was jailed, then the 25th Amendment would almost certainly be triggered. If, however, s/he was only fined and/or given probation, I think it likely that Impeachment (and conviction) would be required for removal (though one would expect the process would be faster, given the criminal record).

        What's required to strike an Impeachment Committee, like the one Nixon had?
        The House needs to pass a resolution authorising one of its committees (historically the Judiciary Committee) to begin an investigation. That resolution needs to be passed by a majority of those voting. It's a historical detail, but unlike Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton, Nixon was never formally impeached. The Judiciary Committee reported Articles of Impeachment to the full House, but Nixon resigned before the House could vote on them. Johnson and Clinton were both impeached by the full House, but then acquitted by the Senate (where a two-thirds majority is required for conviction; the vote in Johnson's case was 35-19, one vote short of the required majority).

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          Trump's Card

          Might there be a stalking horse put up against Trump in the 2020 primaries?

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            Trump's Card

            He would have to get to 2019 first, which I would say is more or less 50-50.

            Though if he does, it would tend to reflect him having worked out some sort of accommodation with the rest of the party. In that event, the invocation of some sort of health-related reason for him not running for re-election would not surprise me at all.

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              Trump's Card

              The tapes. Either they don't exist (most likely) in which case Trump's looks like a really bad poker player. Or they do, and either Comey's a liar or Trump is. I know who I'd bet my house on. There's really no wriggle room for him in this one is there?

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                Trump's Card

                I would be very surprised if they exist.

                That kind of surveillance system is not a do it yourself / internet of things job, and if 45 Had done it, it would have leaked by now.

                That doesn't mean that his aides sometimes record people on their phone (Omarosa already admitted to that) or that he doesn't have people listening in on phone calls (as he did throughout his career). But I'd bet a large sum that there is no tape of his one on one conversation with Comey.

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                  Trump's Card

                  So they don't exist. How does that play with congress, and his base? Doesn't it make him seem, even to them, at best a bit of a dork? Apparently his approval ratings have taken a hammering in the past couple days this surely wouldn't help.

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                    Trump's Card

                    I honestly don't think his base cares, or that it would make any difference to the Congressional Republicans.

                    They know that he lies all the time, and don't seem to be bothered by it.

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                      Trump's Card

                      To steal a tweet

                      Democrats: "He's guilty!"
                      FBI: "He's guilty!"
                      Trump: "I'm guilty!"
                      Republicans: "We may never get to the bottom of this."

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                        Trump's Card

                        It's hard not to enjoy the way he keeps wrongfooting his supporters. Repays their craven loyalty by shitting on them. He doesn't care that he does that, and they can't afford to care that he doesn't care.

                        First they (as personified by Senator Idaho in the hearings) take great pains to explain exactly what the President said (a hope is not an instruction to Comey, etc). Then he stands up in the Rose Garden and says he never said it anyway, but if he did it wouldn't matter, so there. Every kid who's ever lied about their homework knows you only pick one line, and stick to it. Not Trump.

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                          Trump's Card

                          Senator Idaho will be pleased to hear that there are indeed legal cases where "I hope" has been taken to be a threat.

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                            Trump's Card

                            Anyone who says it was not a threat is deliberately playing dumb, rather than being unintentionally gullible.

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                              Trump's Card

                              interesting meditation on bullshit

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                                Trump's Card

                                Trump claims he's willing to testify. That would be suicidal for him, surely?

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                                  Trump's Card

                                  It's looking like Trump is going too postpone his visit to the UK because he's worried about the protests.

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                                    Trump's Card

                                    Must be a good chance that he'll never make a visit to the UK as President.

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                                      Trump's Card

                                      Anyone know where I can offload 2,000 t-shirts ...?

                                      :-(
                                      He must be planning to visit London, Ontario, no?

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                                        Trump's Card

                                        There's still room in the container full of Arsenal Champions shirts going to Moagadishu

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                                          If he fires the special prosecutor and the GOP does nothing about it, the US will have become an authoritarian state.

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                                            Originally posted by Bruno
                                            It's now official (as I'm sure everyone already knows) that Trump is under criminal investigation by Mueller for possible obstruction of justice. Start your total and complete vindication clocks.

                                            Not that the GOP will impeach him once the conclusion is reached. But Mueller is also looking into a slew of potential financial improprieties and crimes. So who goes to jail at the end of the day? Any predictions?
                                            Flynn, probably Manafort, maybe Page. I'm still not convinced anyone else will. That said, while it's obviously a terrible thing for American democracy, this news about Russia compromising a bunch of states' electoral registers is possibly the best thing that could have happened in terms of Trump's potential impeachment. It strikes at the very thing he's most sensitive about, the legitimacy of his election, and makes it all the more likely he'll do criminal obstruction even if he's not personally guilty of anything in the Russia probe.

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                                              I'm not at all sure the leak came from the FBI.

                                              Y bet would be that it was either linked by a senior administration official who wanted to pre-empt 45 from firing Mueller or one of the Congressional Republicans who were briefed on the investigation.

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                                                Not necessarily. It could have come from Mueller's team or (more likely) one of the several people they have been interviewing. Or it could have been intuited from a document request or subpoena. Recall that the Post claimed to have five sources.

                                                45 has spent his entire life blithely ignoring well-intentioned advice.

                                                On the other hand, he has on occasion modified his behaviour for a few days in response to press attention.

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                                                  Also I don't know the rules, but I doubt it's ordinary procedure to inform the subject of an investigation of that fact.

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                                                    If a "target" is called to testify (usually before a Grand Jury), the prosecutor is obliged to notify him/her of his/her status, but we are nowhere near that point in the proceedings.

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