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Oh not again, Ken!

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    Oh not again, Ken!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/there-is-an-orchestrated-campaign-by-supporters-of-israel-to-smear-its-critics-as-anti-semitic-ken-a7004841.html

    Ye gods.


    “Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews,” he said.

    #2
    Oh not again, Ken!

    Has he come out of the loo yet, or is he still being partition stepped by the hacks?

    Comment


      #3
      Oh not again, Ken!

      What Ken has got wrong is the date, the Nazis came to power in 33, and enacted the Haavara agreement to deal with the resettlement of German Jews to Palestine!

      Comment


        #4
        Oh not again, Ken!

        Squarewheelbike wrote: What Ken has got wrong is the date, the Nazis came to power in 33, and enacted the Haavara agreement to deal with the resettlement of German Jews to Palestine!
        .

        No, technically he's right. They came to power in January 1933, but the actual election was in November 1932.

        Still, what an asshole.

        Comment


          #5
          Oh not again, Ken!

          John Mann is the greater asshole for calling Livingstone a "Nazi-apologist". No doubt Livingstone framed the historical fact of Nazis looking at the expulsion of Germany's Jews to Palestine in a most inflammatory manner -- in terns of context and phrasing (the Nazis weren't being pro-Zionist in any way).

          But nothing he said was apologist for the actions of the Nazis.

          But this incident supplements the concerted lies and deliberate distortions that have painted Labour as having an "anti-Semitism problem" -- a strategy that is designed to keep Labour from engaging in criticism of Israel.

          Comment


            #6
            Oh not again, Ken!

            Mann's main objective is to destabilise the Labour leadership. He doesn't really give a fuck either way about Israel or anti-Semitism

            Comment


              #7
              Oh not again, Ken!

              E10 Rifle wrote: Mann's main objective is to destabilise the Labour leadership. He doesn't really give a fuck either way about Israel or anti-Semitism
              He may be a right-wing dickhead, but he has chaired the All-Party Group against Antisemitism since 2005.

              Comment


                #8
                Oh not again, Ken!

                I didn't know that. Fair point. As most of his public utterances are digs at the leadership it's an easy mistake to make. Apols

                Comment


                  #9
                  Oh not again, Ken!

                  Having watched the news now, Mann looked genuinely angry rather than politically shouty when he saw Livingstone.

                  Livingstone gives the impression of enjoying stirring it up, as he did last time with the Standard reporter. His vanity and stupidity in behaving like this are unbelievable.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Oh not again, Ken!

                    I am with G-Man. A stupid (and somewhat baffling thing to stick into an interview) point to make but the Nazis meetings with the Zionists is historical fact so he can't exactly take a point of history back.

                    Mann should definitely be suspended for his accusations and actions.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Oh not again, Ken!

                      E10 Rifle wrote: I didn't know that. Fair point. As most of his public utterances are digs at the leadership it's an easy mistake to make. Apols
                      Mann is above all not very bright.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Oh not again, Ken!

                        Benjm wrote: Having watched the news now, Mann looked genuinely angry rather than politically shouty when he saw Livingstone.

                        Livingstone gives the impression of enjoying stirring it up, as he did last time with the Standard reporter. His vanity and stupidity in behaving like this are unbelievable.
                        Yeah. It's One thing to use the "concentration camp guard" argument- that's what it's usually called. But basic sense should tell you that someone Jewish might not be impressed.

                        The suspension stuff was bollocks but he ought to have rowed back long before.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Oh not again, Ken!

                          I've never heard of the phrase "concentration camp guard argument", so I tried googling it. It offered no enlightenment, but I came across a piece from 2005 about a run-in he had after an event with a reporter, Oliver Finegold, who happened be Jewish, from the Evening Standard.

                          If Mann remembered that episode as he went at Livingstone, maybe that might explain -- and perhaps also justify -- his anger.

                          Oliver Finegold Mr Livingstone, Evening Standard. How did tonight go?

                          Ken Livingstone How awful for you. Have you thought of having treatment?

                          OF How did tonight go?

                          KL Have you thought of having treatment?

                          OF Was it a good party? What does it mean for you?

                          KL What did you do before? Were you a German war criminal?

                          OF No, I'm Jewish, I wasn't a German war criminal and I'm actually quite offended by that. So, how did tonight go?

                          KL Arr right, well you might be [Jewish], but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?

                          OF Great, I have you on record for that. So, how was tonight?

                          KL It's nothing to do with you because your paper is a load of scumbags and reactionary bigots.

                          OF I'm a journalist and I'm doing my job. I'm only asking for a comment.

                          KL Well, work for a paper that doesn't have a record of supporting fascism.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Oh not again, Ken!

                            Yeah, Ken was pissed there

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Oh not again, Ken!

                              http://www.jewishsocialist.org.uk/news/item/statement-on-labours-problem-with-antisemitism-from-the-jewish-socialists-g#.VyJgv4jFN88.twitter

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Oh not again, Ken!

                                Bordeaux Education wrote: Yeah, Ken was pissed there
                                But he refused to apologise when he had sobered up.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Oh not again, Ken!

                                  That statement GCostanza posted is excellent. I think it should be reproduced in full here, in case the link goes unclicked.

                                  Statement on “Labour’s problem with antisemitism”

                                  From the Jewish Socialists’ Group

                                  Antisemitism exists and must be exposed and fought against in the same way as other forms of racism by all who are concerned with combating racism and fascism.

                                  Antisemitism and anti-Zionism are not the same. Zionism is a political ideology which has always been contested within Jewish life since it emerged in 1897, and it is entirely legitimate for non-Jews as well as Jews to express opinions about it, whether positive or negative. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are Jews.

                                  Criticism of Israeli government policy and Israeli state actions against the Palestinians is not antisemitism. Those who conflate criticism of Israeli policy with antisemitism, whether they are supporters or opponents of Israeli policy, are actually helping the antisemites. We reject any attempt, from whichever quarter, to place legitimate criticism of Israeli policy out of bounds.

                                  Accusations of antisemitism are currently being weaponised to attack the Jeremy Corbyn-led Labour party with claims that Labour has a “problem” of antisemitism. This is despite Corbyn’s longstanding record of actively opposing fascism and all forms of racism, and being a firm a supporter of the rights of refugees and of human rights globally.

                                  A very small number of such cases seem to be real instances of antisemitism. Others represent genuine criticism of Israeli policy and support for Palestinian rights, but expressed in clumsy and ambiguous language, which may unknowingly cross a line into antisemitism. Further cases are simply forthright expressions of support for Palestinian rights, which condemn Israeli government policy and aspects of Zionist ideology, and have nothing whatsoever to do with antisemitism.

                                  The accusations do not refer to antisemitic actions but usually to comments, often made on social media, long before Jeremy Corbyn won the Labour leadership. Those making the charges now, did not see fit to bring them up at the time, under previous Labour leaders, but are using them now, just before mayoral and local elections, when they believe they can inflict most damage on the Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn.

                                  The attack is coming from four main sources, who share agendas: to undermine Jeremy Corbyn as leader of Labour; to defend Israeli government policy from attack, however unjust, racist and harmful towards the Palestinian people; and to discredit those who make legitimate criticisms of Israeli policy or Zionism as a political ideology. As anti-racist and anti-fascist Jews who are also campaigning for peace with justice between Israelis and Palestinians, we entirely reject these cynical agendas that are being expressed by:

                                  • The Conservative Party

                                  • Conservative-supporting media in Britain and pro-Zionist Israeli media sources

                                  • Right-wing and pro-Zionist elements claiming to speak on behalf of the Jewish community

                                  • Opponents of Jeremy Corbyn within the Labour party.

                                  The Jewish Socialists’ Group recognises that ordinary Jewish people are rightly concerned and fearful about instances of antisemitism. We share their concerns and a have a proud and consistent record of challenging and campaigning against antisemitism. But we will not support those making false accusations for cynical political motives, including the Conservative Party, who are running a racist campaign against Sadiq Khan, and whose leader David Cameron has referred to desperate refugees, as “a swarm” and “a bunch of migrants”. The Conservative Party demonstrated their contempt for Lord Dubs, a Jewish refugee from Nazism, when they voted down en masse an amendment a few days ago to allow 3,000 child refugees into Britain while Labour, led by Jeremy Corbyn, gave total support to Lord Dubs and his amendment.

                                  The Jewish Socialists’ Group sees the current fearmongering about antisemitism in the Labour Party for what it is – a conscious and concerted effort by right-wing political forces to undermine the growing support among Jews and non-Jews alike for the Labour Party leadership of Jeremy Corbyn, and a measure of the desperation of his opponents.

                                  We stand against antisemitism, against racism and fascism and in support of refugees. We stand for free speech and open debate on Israel, Palestine and Zionism.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Oh not again, Ken!

                                    See, if the BBC had any kind of impartiality at all they would be trying to get the Jewish Socialists on there. That's the most refreshing thing I think I've read about Israel in yonks.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Oh not again, Ken!

                                      G-Man wrote:
                                      Originally posted by Bordeaux Education
                                      Yeah, Ken was pissed there
                                      But he refused to apologise when he had sobered up.
                                      He never does.

                                      Comment

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