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    Shakespeare 400

    I'm certainly not want to over-indulge in hyperbolic paeans to The Bard, but Dickens aside, it's hard to think of any other literary figure whose work is sufficiently malleable to cross cultures, generations and myriad reinventions. From Kurosawa to Zulu tribes, the Scottish play alone has been staged with success in new, innovative formats, and pretty much every comedy has captured the cinematic interest of contemporary teenagers. Even apart from drama, the sonnets have undoubtedly aged well, with only Keats perhaps able to rival the stanzas in relation to lyrical beauty. And just think of how the epigrams pepper our everyday speech - "winter of discontent" "never a borrower nor a lender be" "the lady doth protest too much".

    #2
    Shakespeare 400

    There'll be a lavishly filmed worthy BBC Drama before the decade is out, Cumberpatch in a half slap head wig and no hint of Brum accent. Tortured genius, complicated marriage, the pull of the muse versus the family grind... Impresario as Modern! Entrepreneur. That vapid lad who does all their big costume adaptions would have a field day.

    Could even spin off a piss poor Schama in Stratford doc as a bonus. Trebles all round!

    Comment


      #3
      Shakespeare 400

      Diable Rouge wrote: I'm certainly not want to over-indulge in hyperbolic paeans to The Bard, but Dickens aside, it's hard to think of any other literary figure whose work is sufficiently malleable to cross cultures, generations and myriad reinventions. From Kurosawa to Zulu tribes, the Scottish play alone has been staged with success in new, innovative formats, and pretty much every comedy has captured the cinematic interest of contemporary teenagers. Even apart from drama, the sonnets have undoubtedly aged well, with only Keats perhaps able to rival the stanzas in relation to lyrical beauty. And just think of how the epigrams pepper our everyday speech - "winter of discontent" "never a borrower nor a lender be" "the lady doth protest too much".
      I don't disagree with a single word of this. I disagree with every word of it.

      Comment


        #4
        Shakespeare 400

        I think the Canady doth protest too much.

        I went to the British Library's Shakespeare exhibition on Tuesday, very good, and as always, brought some fresh knowledge and shed new light on his work, for me. It is very rich and layered.

        Personally, I'm not interested in theories that it was Bacon, or work by committee, or some Illuminati/mason thing, the artist we know as Shakespeare, or the Shakespeare brand, wrote some brilliant plays that still resonate.

        Comment


          #5
          Shakespeare 400

          Shakespeare should go away for a hundred years so we have the chance to miss him.

          And if, in the interim, we discover that other plays and sonnets have been written by others, then so much the better.

          Comment


            #6
            Shakespeare 400

            I'm bemused that four centuries after the fact, we are speculating about whether William Shakespeare was the author of the works that bear his name. There is no serious contemporary suggestion that he was not the author, and no shred of evidence exists that somebody else was the author (and speculative guesswork is no evidence). Shouldn't we trust that the people of Shakespeare's time werenlt complete idiots?

            It's like in 400 years time, if humans still exist, some herberts begin to question whether John Lennon and Paul McCartney actually did write all that Beatles music.

            Comment


              #7
              Shakespeare 400

              I'm certainly not want to over-indulge in hyperbolic paeans to The Bard, but Dickens aside, it's hard to think of any other literary figure whose work is sufficiently malleable to cross cultures, generations and myriad reinventions.
              Even apart from drama, the sonnets have undoubtedly aged well, with only Keats perhaps able to rival the stanzas in relation to lyrical beauty.
              So the three greatest literary figures in the world all happen to be English? Fancy that.

              Comment


                #8
                Shakespeare 400

                WOM wrote: Shakespeare should go away for a hundred years so we have the chance to miss him.

                And if, in the interim, we discover that other plays and sonnets have been written by others, then so much the better.
                While there is an element of being ostentatiously cultural in doing Shakespeare stuff ("He's the best! Everyone says so! And we're doing an adaptation of Othello! So we must be pretty good! Because he's the best!") Shakespeare was genuinely greaterer than the rest of them.

                Though I disagree a bit with DR, as I'm not convinced the sonnets have aged so well. Too mannered and trying hard to be clever, for the main. But that's Elizabethan poetry as a whole for you.

                Freud was convinced Shakespeare didn't write his plays. Shakespeare's plays, I mean, not Freud's.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Shakespeare 400

                  He's rather good (Shakespeare, not Freud).

                  There's an English-language production of Hamlet here soon I think, which I'm looking forward to partly because I've not been to the theatre for ages.

                  The actual anniversary isn't for another week and a half, mind, because he died on the 23rd April of the Julian calendar, which is the 2nd May these days. Has this been mentioned at all amid the commemorations back in the UK?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Shakespeare 400

                    No, Sam.

                    I read Bill Bryson's book about Shakespeare that sums up everything in the first couple of paragraphs along the lines of we know nothing about his life, it was all written down hundreds of years later etc. etc. Then Bryson carried on writing another 100 or so pages, I guess because a pamphlet wasn't what his editor wanted.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Shakespeare 400

                      He doesn't really get the recognition he deserves. But those in the know say Ranieri relies on him.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Shakespeare 400

                        "He" was, of course, a Jewish bird called Amelia Bassano Lanier, who was also black (sometimes), and had to publish under the guise of the jobbing actor and amateur grain merchant Will Shakepeare because of the racism and sexism inherent in the system.

                        I am not making this up - some people beleive this, or claim to to sell books and annoy people like me.

                        Evidence? The use of the names Amelia and Bassanio in The Merchant of Venice; and the claim that Shakepeare couldn't have written about Italy because he'd never been there, where as Emilia Bassano might have been; though how she got back to Ancient Rome to find details for Julius Ceasar, and medieval Denmark to research Hamlet is not explained.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Shakespeare 400

                          Patrick Thistle wrote: No, Sam.
                          Shame.

                          Yesterday was the 400th anniversary of Cervantes' death, though - Spain having moved to the Gregorian calendar already when he kicked the bucket - so happy anniversary, Miguel.

                          Imagine the reaction back in 1616 to those two dying a week and a half apart, if the internet had existed then. Maybe it's fitting we've had so many great artists popping their clogs this year (albeit most of them seem to be musicians this year).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Shakespeare 400

                            As if no-one back then read books or heard stories down the pub (in one of the major trading ports of the early modern) about far-off places and their funny ways.

                            Those Holy Blood spurious supposition type embossed cover books are a real drag. Shakespeare was this and that. Giant pyramids under the sea "they" don't want you to know about. Edinburgh airport "bookshop" seems to specialize in that tat. And true crime.

                            Why do people want to believe this shite?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Shakespeare 400

                              People don't, for the most part. I'm baffled as to how half of this thread is taken up by arguments against conspiracy theories which haven't actually been voiced by anyone on here.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Shakespeare 400

                                Sam wrote: The actual anniversary isn't for another week and a half, mind, because he died on the 23rd April of the Julian calendar, which is the 2nd May these days. Has this been mentioned at all amid the commemorations back in the UK?
                                I'm sure that Neil deGrasse Tyson will be along to "ACTUALLY..." at any moment.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Shakespeare 400

                                  Fussbudget wrote:
                                  I'm certainly not want to over-indulge in hyperbolic paeans to The Bard, but Dickens aside, it's hard to think of any other literary figure whose work is sufficiently malleable to cross cultures, generations and myriad reinventions.
                                  Even apart from drama, the sonnets have undoubtedly aged well, with only Keats perhaps able to rival the stanzas in relation to lyrical beauty.
                                  So the three greatest literary figures in the world all happen to be English? Fancy that.
                                  Dickens, no less. I'll pass.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Shakespeare 400

                                    G-Man wrote: I'm bemused that four centuries after the fact, we are speculating about whether William Shakespeare was the author of the works that bear his name.
                                    That's not what you're reading my second paragraph as suggesting, are you? Because that's not what I meant. I meant that maybe we'd champion the slightly lesser works of others and 'do' them to death for a while.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Shakespeare 400

                                      Sam wrote: People don't, for the most part. I'm baffled as to how half of this thread is taken up by arguments against conspiracy theories which haven't actually been voiced by anyone on here.
                                      They're entertaining.

                                      And because I'm not sure how much further we can go with the "Shakespeare was great" v "Shakespeare was a bit okay" debate.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Shakespeare 400

                                        WOM wrote: I meant that maybe we'd champion the slightly lesser works of others and 'do' them to death for a while.
                                        That's what I tok you as meaning.

                                        Though if you look at Shakespeare's contemporaries, you realise that Shakespeare was head and shoulders above them.

                                        (Though it is worth acknowledging that even Shakespeare wasnt always as good as Shakespeare. Some of the comedies are pretty humdrum. But MacBeth, Hamlet, Lear, Julius Ceasar, Ant and Cleo, Coriolanus, Tempest, Richard III ... That's not a bad knock.)

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Shakespeare 400

                                          Oh, indeed. But imagine (to parrot a theme) if in 400 years, every other band only did Beatles covers. Some latter-day Kenneth Branagh constantly did intriguing new twists on Help, A Hard Day's Night, and Magical Mystery Tour (the movies here, not the songs). Every summer, Beatles In The Park or The Beatles Festival at a reconstructed The Cavern Club.

                                          And if someone suggested doing The Rolling Stones, people were like "yeah, but, you know...they're no Beatles".

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Shakespeare 400

                                            Oh, and welcome Lurgee. Favourite biscuit?

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Shakespeare 400

                                              Was just about to say welcome Lurgee, lovely first couple of posts there and no mistake.

                                              I always want to ask "Favourite cheese?" at this point, because I can never help but look at the 'location' icon as a wedge of holey cheese. It took me ages to realise it's a house.

                                              The Shakespeare live event broadcast from the RSC on BBC1 this evening was great fun. Particular highlights were Al Murray as Bottom with Judi Dench in a Midsummer Night's Dream excerpt, and the terrific deconstruction of "To be or not to be, that is the question" with a cavalcade of stars coming on one by one to interrupt, each putting the emphasis on a different word in the phrase – it was both very funny and actually made you think about it as the nuance changes with every iteration. Hats off to the Bard.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Shakespeare 400

                                                WOM wrote: Oh, indeed. But imagine (to parrot a theme) if in 400 years, every other band only did Beatles covers. Some latter-day Kenneth Branagh constantly did intriguing new twists on Help, A Hard Day's Night, and Magical Mystery Tour (the movies here, not the songs). Every summer, Beatles In The Park or The Beatles Festival at a reconstructed The Cavern Club.

                                                And if someone suggested doing The Rolling Stones, people were like "yeah, but, you know...they're no Beatles".
                                                It wouldn't surprise me if it weren't the actual Rolling Stones still touring.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Shakespeare 400

                                                  Various Artist wrote: Was just about to say welcome Lurgee, lovely first couple of posts there and no mistake.

                                                  I always want to ask "Favourite cheese?" at this point, because I can never help but look at the 'location' icon as a wedge of holey cheese. It took me ages to realise it's a house.

                                                  The Shakespeare live event broadcast from the RSC on BBC1 this evening was great fun. Particular highlights were Al Murray as Bottom with Judi Dench in a Midsummer Night's Dream excerpt, and the terrific deconstruction of "To be or not to be, that is the question" with a cavalcade of stars coming on one by one to interrupt, each putting the emphasis on a different word in the phrase – it was both very funny and actually made you think about it as the nuance changes with every iteration. Hats off to the Bard.
                                                  Hahahaha! WHAT?!

                                                  Comment

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