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    We could be heroes

    I went down to Exeter over the weekend, to see my Mum, and had the pleasure of watching the Man City - Leicester game in the Black Horse, on Longbrook Street, while my teenage daughters went off shopping with my wife.

    A group of youngish blokes were on the table next to me, and being quite laddy and loud, so it was impossible not to overhear them. It became apparent early on - when one mentioned the need to "get back to camp" and then other military references - that they were from the Lympstone Marine camp, a few miles outside town.

    And such a charming bunch they proved to be. One of the loudest of the group in particular was one of the most aggressively homophobic people I think I've ever encountered - everything was "gay" this, or "fucking gay" that, from the way Joe Hart took goal kicks to the way his mates drank their pints slower than he did. When the TV showed a close-up of Shinji Okazaki, wincing after missing a good chance, it inspired two of this brains trust to do a Benny Hill-esque impersonation of "a wanking Jap" that went on for several minutes and recurred every time Okazaki touched the ball. And when my daughters arrived, the homophobe actually wolf whistled at my eldest and announced "Hey lads, the strippers are here!", possibly in an attempt to get me up and start something with him.

    "Heroes", these people are lauded as. No matter what they do. I'm from a military family background myself, so I understand the barracks mentality and banter. But I think the media hagiography of military personnel needs to be stopped, soon, before complete twats like the ones I spent Saturday in the company of start believing it themselves.

    #2
    We could be heroes

    Exactly this. You know as well as I do that members of the armed forces can't all be tarred by the same brush as the people you refer to. However, with it being a non-conscripted armed forces, it does tend, like the police, to attract more people of a certain persuasion. As you say, this catch-all "heroes" title is bollocks. You only have to look at Deepcut, Alex Blackman etc to see this.

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      #3
      We could be heroes

      Those in the forces are still (mostly) accountable for their actions. Maybe dash off a quick complaint?. The contact details are quickly googleable and it probably wouldn't take too much detective work for their superiors to find out exactly who these oafs are.

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        #4
        We could be heroes

        Aye- Royal Marines Colonel Kevin Oliver is your man.

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          #5
          We could be heroes

          What Bored said.

          Why is anyone remotely surprised? They've been like this for decades.

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            #6
            We could be heroes

            I wouldn't hold out too much hope, Rogin.
            If they can shoot civilians en masse and get away with it, or even if prosecuted and slapped on the wrists are then welcomed back into the Army, they might not be too bothered about boorishness in a pub.
            Unless of course there's one rule for how they behave in England and another for how they behaved in Ireland.
            Oh, wait...

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              #7
              We could be heroes

              Or how they behaved in Iraq.

              And numerous others of their colonial outposts.

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                #8
                We could be heroes

                Despite supposedly being an equal opportunities employer, the armed forces must still be a horribly intimidating place for gays, women and other minorities. With any luck one day this cunt will come across a gay person who doesn't fit his perceived stereotype and ends up getting his face smashed in.

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                  #9
                  We could be heroes

                  They'll probably always behave like that, in general- the training encourages it, as well as the squaddies' background.

                  The way the English media has such a fetish for them can change though. It wasn't always like this.

                  On a slightly cheerier note, my brother (a dealer in both football and military memorabilia) has just designed a flag comparing the jaunt to Euro 16 with the Battle of the Somme. Not good.

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                    #10
                    We could be heroes

                    Sean of the Shed wrote: Despite supposedly being an equal opportunities employer, the armed forces must still be a horribly intimidating place for gays, women and other minorities. With any luck one day this cunt will come across a gay person who doesn't fit his perceived stereotype and ends up getting his face smashed in.
                    Or, preferably, a less violent form of belittlement and humiliation.

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                      #11
                      We could be heroes

                      I used to go past the commando camp on the train, heading for Exeter City. Often a big crowd of Marines (or trainees, like Prince Edward the Wuss) would get on, and stay on as a handful of us got off at St James Park. I can't recall ever seeing any of Our Boys alight and come along to support Our Shirts.

                      I always hoped the club would do a deal and give them free admission in exchange for chasing off visiting hoolies.

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                        #12
                        We could be heroes

                        Or, preferably, a less violent form of belittlement and humiliation.
                        My sort-of stepbrother is in the Marines. From what I can gather – I’ve never met him and am only likely to if his mother marries my father or if my father dies before his mother does –, face-smashing isn’t the only language of belittlement and humiliation he understands, but it’s the one he’s most fluent in.

                        from the way Joe Hart took goal kicks to the way his mates drank their pints slower than he did.
                        He’s actually based at the camp Rogin mentioned and is a big, and quick, drinker (I know this because my father has mentioned that his drinking speed messes up the rounds in the pub). As I said, I don’t know what he looks like, though.

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                          #13
                          We could be heroes

                          Luke R wrote:
                          Originally posted by Sean of the Shed
                          Despite supposedly being an equal opportunities employer, the armed forces must still be a horribly intimidating place for gays, women and other minorities. With any luck one day this cunt will come across a gay person who doesn't fit his perceived stereotype and ends up getting his face smashed in.
                          Or, preferably, a less violent form of belittlement and humiliation.
                          No. I prefer mine. Preferably in front of all his mates.

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                            #14
                            We could be heroes

                            Yes, I'm not sure even the most delightfully waspish bon mot will do the trick here.

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                              #15
                              We could be heroes

                              There's a non violent compromise surely- do the Military still have the glasshouse?

                              Apologies to my brother above, he didn't actually design the flag.

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                                #16
                                We could be heroes

                                Sean of the Shed wrote: Despite supposedly being an equal opportunities employer, the armed forces must still be a horribly intimidating place for gays, women and other minorities. With any luck one day this cunt will come across a gay person who doesn't fit his perceived stereotype and ends up getting his face smashed in.
                                That reminds me of the story - probably apocryphal but hopefully not - of a load of Rugby League supporters coming down to London for a final and deciding to go down Earls Court Road "queer-bashing". What they didn't realise is that there is a couple of gay gyms down there and they were set upon by hordes of unstereotypically brick shithouse and 'nails gay guys who kick the shit out of them.

                                Another story I heard was of a Army training camp that had a pub outside the door. Apparently, the first weekend that the recruits had off they would pile out of the camp into the pub and start trying to throw their weight around. What they never realised each year was that it was the local bikers pub and they had their arses handed to them by guys who were very experienced and well-versed in non-Queensbury rules engagement.

                                Not big and not clever, obviously, but kind of funny.

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                                  #17
                                  We could be heroes

                                  Rogin, that doesn't sound like a good experience you had and you should have taken their photo's on your phone and then sent it to the base at Lympstone with a letter of complaint. The armed services still has its own prison at Colchester (the Glasshosue, as Dunc points out) but they can also fine them, restriction of privileges, extra duties as alternative punishments.

                                  Part of the problem though is they're taught to be big, hard tough, endurable and all the other things you would expect of a Marine, but some of them find it difficult to turn it off at the weekend. Not an excuse, y'know just saying. I think some of you know I'm a reservist and I've never seen any behaviour like Rogin describes, but then there is a crucial difference. I behave in the military as I do at work. That is to say I work in a very good tolerant environment where we are all treated equally. It's the same with all my comrades actually, behave in uniform as you would at work. Unfortunately for Rogin the men he describes will only have known one working environment. Therein lies the problem.

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