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    #1

    World of Bushcraft

    As I don't want to take the Atheist thread off a tangent, I am starting another thread.

    Not really something I want to discuss at length with strange blokes on the internet, but as it's a socio-cultural issue ...

    The subject of pubic hair removal came up. Well, I brought it up, as an example of women in the west undergoing pain in order to conform to the prevailing standard/fashion for little or no hair in the pubic region.

    Taylor stated that it's something that women choose to do in order to increase their sensitivity and therefore their pleasure.

    I looked into this, as it didn't seem to tally with what I've heard or my own experience (I don't have sex with women, so obviously don't get that part of the picture).

    The first article here seems to support that to some extent, although as the author notes, it's difficult to really separate cause and effect.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-pleasures-sex/201203/what-pubic-hair-its-removal-has-do-better-sex

    Still, that and another article where one lesbian said "two words - more sensation", surprised me.

    Against that, there are these articles arguing for the sexual and health benefits of pubic hair.

    http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/04/war-pubic-hair.html

    http://www.thesexmd.com/your-bush-loves-you-back/

    I still think, from anecdotal evidence, that hair removal is a mixture of self-grooming for oneself (a bit of trimming and tidying), social convention (the bikini line, for swimming / the beach / gym changing room) and pleasing one's partner (complete or near complete removal, that involves quite a bit of pain).

    But there you go, there are conflicting opinions.

    All I would argue for is that women are not put under pressure to remove their hair if they're not comfortable doing so, and that young girls aren't given the impression that it's something ugly and shameful.
    Tags: None
    #2
    World of Bushcraft

    It's definitely a relatively recent fashion. To use a wider sample than my own personal experience (to satisfy the statisticians) I don't remember any centrefolds or nude scenes in films from the 90s or earlier without pubic hair, and even by the end of the 00s I think "Brazilians" or other bikini-line fashioning was the mode, not waxed off altogether.

    In the same period, of course, beauty salons offering wax treatments have become a big thing, so it's hard to tell if it's a demand that was always there and not being met, or an industry that is creating its own demand (like, arguably, other parts of the fashion industry). I'm always a little worried that part of the "demand" if it's male-driven might in some subconscious way be desiring women to look partly pre-pubescent, because something's clearly wrong there.

    Comment

      #3
      World of Bushcraft

      Btw - somewhere in those links is mention of mothers taking their young teenage daughters for Brazilian waxes "to get used to it". It's not FGM, but it's abuse of a sort, I would say.

      Comment

        #4
        World of Bushcraft

        I didn't know you had an allotment.*

        *possibly a Brit-only joke.

        Comment

          #5
          World of Bushcraft

          I read somewhere that the fashion for hair removal means pubic lice are going extinct. Not sure that's true.

          I've wondered the same thing as Rogin about why the porn industry does it.

          Great thread title by the way.

          Comment

            #6
            World of Bushcraft

            Pornography is all about leaving nothing to the imagination. It's explicit, harshly lit, entirely informational. Pubic hair just gets in the way.

            Eroticism and glamour are the opposite. They're all about enticement, intrigue, with-holding and creating mystery. What a vagina looks like with a macro lens is not as important as knowing the woman who possesses it. The difference is, almost literally, night and day.

            Comment

              #7
              World of Bushcraft

              I'd probably argue it began as a consequence of changing fashions in swimwear, then later moved into the mainstream.

              I think every woman I've been with in the last few years has indulged in it to varying degrees. I also tell women I'm not that bothered.

              Comment

                #8
                World of Bushcraft

                I think it's nice if a person has a bit of tidy up down below, but it's none of my business if they don't and I wouldn't dream of bringing it up.
                For the record I do some manscaping myself. There's little in life as unattractive as an overgrown scrotum, I feel.

                Comment

                  #9
                  World of Bushcraft

                  It's all very culturally specific though, isn't it. Is untrimmed hair really 'untidy' or 'overgrown'?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    World of Bushcraft

                    It's not necessarily culturally specific, although it might be, I suppose. Lost of things are. Culturally we chaps tend to cut our hair and shave our faces too. Of course we don't exist in a cultural vacuum.
                    However it can also just be for pleasantness. I don't have a great deal of experience when it comes to other men's junk, but of the chaps I've been acquainted with as it were, I much prefered the experience with the one who de-fuzzed. Same with women. Fewer hairs in mouths etc,
                    Like I said though, it's nice if they do, but I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      World of Bushcraft

                      Indeed, I didn't say that this only applied to pubic hair (it's definitely true of beards too, and for women of armpit hair, leg hair, eyebrows etc.) or that I don't subscribe to some of these notions, just pointing out that terms like 'untidy' or 'overgrown' are far from neutral here, as is the much worse and often heard 'unhygienic'.

                      I mean, 'overgrown' literally means that pubic hair left in its natural state is 'beyond its normal size'. It's almost absurd.

                      I get the hairs-in-mouth aspect but I think that's a bit overplayed, though I'm not going to venture too far into that particular debate for reasons of TMI.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        World of Bushcraft

                        I can't think that I have ever mentioned to any lady companion my views on female pubic topiary. I hope I don't offend anyone but I have always thought that there is something a bit Operation Yewtree about men that insist on women shaving completely. I totally get the hygiene reason but it seems odd that we haven't evolved that this isn't the case.

                        Pubescent males almost always shave their pubic hair as an experiment not long after growing it, I think, only to find out how irritating it is when growing back.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          World of Bushcraft

                          Yeah, have to admit I can't get past the 'fantasy' aspect of guys insisting that their partners shave completely - and find that slightly bothersome.

                          And if you're concerned about hairs-in-the-mouth, then you're doing it wrong. (I know, TMI.)

                          Comment

                            #14
                            World of Bushcraft

                            I mean, 'overgrown' literally means that pubic hair left in its natural state is 'beyond its normal size'. It's almost absurd
                            No more absurd than saying that head hair left in its natural state is "beyond its normal size." I bet you get your hair cut though. Or cut your finger nails.
                            Not that anyone should ever feel pressured by anyone or anything.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              World of Bushcraft

                              MsD wrote:

                              All I would argue for is that women are not put under pressure to remove their hair if they're not comfortable doing so, and that young girls aren't given the impression that it's something ugly and shameful.
                              This. It's a very personal decision and should be made because a woman wants to, not because she feels shamed into it.

                              Comment

                                #16
                                World of Bushcraft

                                hobbes wrote:
                                I mean, 'overgrown' literally means that pubic hair left in its natural state is 'beyond its normal size'. It's almost absurd
                                No more absurd than saying that head hair left in its natural state is "beyond its normal size." I bet you get your hair cut though. Or cut your finger nails.
                                Not that anyone should ever feel pressured by anyone or anything.
                                Slight point of order there. Short 'n' curlies by definition don't carry on growing indefinitely like fingernails or (ideally - unfortunately) head hair. It's hard to imagine them getting unmanageable, outgrowing your trousers or whatever.

                                But, y'know, each to their own.

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  World of Bushcraft

                                  Pubescent males almost always shave their pubic hair as an experiment not long after growing it, I think, only to find out how irritating it is when growing back.
                                  Sorry, what?

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    World of Bushcraft

                                    Alderman Barnes wrote: It's hard to imagine them getting unmanageable, outgrowing your trousers or whatever.
                                    Hard maybe, but amusing.

                                    Flick ups around the trouser ankles.

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      World of Bushcraft

                                      san2sboro wrote:
                                      Pubescent males almost always shave their pubic hair as an experiment not long after growing it, I think, only to find out how irritating it is when growing back.
                                      Sorry, what?
                                      Oh, erm, nothing. Forget I said anything.

                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        World of Bushcraft

                                        Did you go reverse mohawk?

                                        Comment

                                          #21
                                          World of Bushcraft

                                          Or bursting like an overstuffed horsehair settee while negotiating a tricky job interview, receiving a knight- or damehood or laying a wreath at the Cenotaph.

                                          Comment

                                            #22
                                            World of Bushcraft

                                            She has ladies-in-waiting for that sort of thing, surely.

                                            Oh.

                                            Comment

                                              #23
                                              World of Bushcraft

                                              hobbes wrote:
                                              I mean, 'overgrown' literally means that pubic hair left in its natural state is 'beyond its normal size'. It's almost absurd
                                              No more absurd than saying that head hair left in its natural state is "beyond its normal size." I bet you get your hair cut though. Or cut your finger nails.
                                              Not that anyone should ever feel pressured by anyone or anything.
                                              AB covered the bit about growing, but the point though is that people do feel pressured, and language plays a part in that. I'm not trying to say that shaving or not shaving is the better option, whatever people choose to do or prefer in their partner is none of my business.

                                              But like MsD and Femme Folle, I think the important thing is that women can make an actual choice here, and the talk of trimming or shaving your pubic hair as being tidier/more hygienic/the normal thing to do may seem benign, but is very pervasive and adds up to a fairly big cultural pressure.

                                              This isn't aimed at you particularly as MsD herself mentioned tidiness in her OP, and I'm sure I've also done it in the past, but if we're concerned about women and girls not being under pressure to conform, it's worth being careful with the words we choose and the assumptions that lie behind them.

                                              Comment

                                                #24
                                                World of Bushcraft

                                                Can you imagine the havoc that a pubesplosion at the palace would cause? The entire country would be in lockdown for the foreseeable.

                                                Comment

                                                  #25
                                                  World of Bushcraft

                                                  Erm, sorry about that, unable to resist being flippant.

                                                  Fussbudget is entirely right.

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