Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

[Your Usual Table]

E10 Rifle wrote:

I gave up on Private Eye for its Tower Hamlets coverage. One of its targets happened to cross my path on Twitter, and confirmed my suspicions about it.

Yeah, I've seen nothing in the Eye's coverage that suggests they've ever spoken to anyone in Tower Hamlets other than the Tory group spokesperson and single-issue former East London Advertiser hack Ted Jeory. Fearless probing it ain't.

I was going to post this in the Corb Blimey! thread but don't want to derail it as what I want to ask is not really germane to the discussion. So here's a thread we can all pretend never happened.

Ian Hislop is, as I understand it, a Tory albeit a One Nation Tory. There was an interview with him from a few years back where he admitted his constituency MP is Anne Widdecombe and he considered her to be very good. Not a good sign.

HIGNFY was brilliant for years but lost a huge amount of its relevance and its sting when Deayton was sacked. He had to go, that's not in question, but his deadpan delivery of incredibly acerbic lines was one of the things that made the show so watchable. That and, back then, both Merton and Hislop took the show very seriously as opposed to now when it seems like it's just something they do out of habit. Will Self has summed it up well with his reasons for not appearing on the show any more:

In its heyday HIGNFY was in the very cockpit of British satire: a prototype kind of reality TV in which unwitting politicians were parachuted into a jungle full of backbiting repartee. The combination of a witty dissection of the week's current events and an opportunity for viewers to see their rulers - or wannabe rulers - excoriated in front of a live studio audience was a must-see, and for some years the programme formed part of the political discourse, as well as provoking myriad belly laughs.

...

I'm afraid that without the reality element, the programme has become just like any other pseudo-panel contest, where funny fellows sit behind desks cracking jokes. Moreover, in the post-Hutton Inquiry era, the BBC seems to have lost its bottle so far as edgy satire is concerned: the sharpest crack I made all evening — and the one that received the most audience laughter — was cut for transmission.

Perhaps some of you, particularly OTF's Francophones, can help me out with something that's bothered me since it happened on the show, way back at the beginning of the Century. Mark Steel was the guest on Hislop's team and a question came up about the proposed EU Constitution which was the brainchild of a former French President named Valery Giscard D'Estaing (VGE as I think he was called for short). As soon as the question came up, Hislop went into a bit of a tirade about both VGE and the idea of the Constitution itself (Can't find it online so I'm going to type this from memory - forgive me if it goes astray)

"VGE, if he was in this country, would be in jail. He's one of those charming leaders the French come out with... every time. He's the architect of this thing [Constitution]." Hislop went on for a couple of minutes about how bad an idea it was before Steel interjected with, "Blimey, if we'd let you go on for a bit longer that would have turned into 'Fuckin' Italians! Fuckin' Frogs!'" before Hislop seethed at Steel for misrepresenting him before adding "Although, in this context, 'Fuckin' Italians' is probably pretty apt." Winding down he said something like "Did you know that Article [whatever] of this Constitution says we all have to be loyal to it? So if the Constitution was passed I would now be charged with a crime?"

I've a few questions over this so would appreciate any input

1) Just who was VGE? A good President or not?

2) Why would he have been in prison if he was British? What law would he have broken?

3) Is that true what he said about the Constitution and, as I'm assuming it's bullshit, why did nobody pull him up on it?

EDIT: Found the video, it's at 10:22 of this clip.

[laverte]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

I can't answer the last question but will have a stab at the others.

Carnivorous Vulgaris wrote: 1) Just who was VGE? A good President or not?

Not. Giscard was an aristocrat whose leadership style was patrician and consensualist. His presidency (1974-81) coincided with the aftermath of the oil crisis and the end of the trente glorieuses, a long period of prosperity and cultural dynamism in France. Giscard's aloofness and tendency to go off hunting during crises made him unpopular. He was an outsider in his own party, and the Gaullist element (led by Jacques Chirac) undermined him at every opportunity, eventually breaking loose during the 1981 campaign. His centrist style was inappropriate during an era when difficult choices needed to be made and deference was breaking down.

There is a fascinating documentary by Raymond Depardon called 1974: une partie de campagne. Depardon followed Giscard's presidential campaign and it's an astonishing insight into the man and his politics. On election night, Giscard is filmed sitting alone in his apartment with his dog, watching the tv. He sees that he has been elected. The phone rings: one of his aides congratulates him. Giscard gets into his Citroën DS and has his chauffeur drive him down the Champs Elysées, winding down the window to shake a few hands. No security, no spin doctors, no victory party. Just a melancholy old bachelor whose quiet night is interrupted when he becomes president.

2) Why would he have been in prison if he was British? What law would he have broken?

He was caught up in a corruption case of Françafrique, known as l'affaire des diamants. Giscard was a personal friend of the dictator Bokassa, of the Central African Republic. Bokassa invited him to go hunting a few times and presented him with gifts including precious diamonds, which Giscard kept in a drawer in his office. When Bokassa was removed from power, information about his atrocious regime began to surface – it had massacred children, tortured political opponents, etc. The French government had propped up Bokassa in return for all sorts of bribes and favours, and Giscard's diamonds came to symbolise this corruption.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

None of the leaders of the major nations in the latter half of the 1970s are very fondly remembered, are they? Carter, Callaghan, Giscard. Were they all impacted by the economic turmoil of the time, that highlighted flaws in other policy areas that would have been forgiven had the economy been booming? About the only leader who gets off lightly is Schmidt, prehaps precisely because West Germany had taken measures to stabilise its economy better than the others.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Giscard D’Estaing’s administration is notable for being the first European attempt to introduce monetarist policies to deal with the early 1970’s worldwide fall in the rate of profit. Under his Prime Minister and Minister of Economy and Finance, Raymond Barre, the eponymously named plan was implemented. The Barre Plan contained all the ingredients- trade union proscription, public spending cuts, welfare spending cuts and unemployment as a policy tool to maintain price stability. The days of dirigisme were over. Although Mitterand campaigned on the reversal of much of this economic policy, for various reasons he quickly reversed and moved in the monetarist direction during his Presidency.

There is an interesting contemporary analysis of this first European foray into monetarism here.

[MsD]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

VGE would be a safe target for Hislop to have a righteous rant about, being long gone, and most people not knowing all that much about him.

Topical news quiz!

[ursus arctos]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Jimmy Carter was widely vilified at the time, but since leaving office has had the most dignified and meaningful career of any ex-President in my lifetime.

Giscard, not so much.

[ursus arctos]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

He's still around.

Publishing romances, among other things.

The last one was called The President and the Princess.

Yes, really.

[San Bernardhinault]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

As an aside to this aside, I completely gave up on Private Eye when they went completely Daily Mail over Andrew Wakefield and MMR. Until that point, I still had a vague feeling that they may have been worthwhile campaigning journalists...

[Eggchaser]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

ursus arctos wrote: Jimmy Carter was widely vilified at the time, but since leaving office has had the most dignified and meaningful career of any ex-President in my lifetime.

He's history's greatest monster!

[Borracho]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

I still buy it, primarily for Street Of Shame, which if nothing else is usually a good laugh.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

The Barre Plan contained all the ingredients- trade union proscription, public spending cuts, welfare spending cuts and unemployment as a policy tool to maintain price stability.

It's hard to me from this distance to get a sense of alternatives, but lots of that is standard stuff in the face of inflation, isn't it? Is it Monetarist?

Simon Wren-Lewis has expressed approval of Thatcher's record in reducing inflation, which I presume means he approves of some of that stuff (though not Monetarism or spending cuts).

Wren-Lewis has just been chosen as one of McDonnell's economic advisors.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

"VGE, if he was in this country, would be in jail.

that's just not true is it?

[MsD]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

If his tante had balls, she would most certainement be his oncle.

[laverte]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: "VGE, if he was in this country, would be in jail.

that's just not true is it?

It is if you share Hislop's view that anywhere south of Bexhill is a place where politics is all about backhanders and bunga bunga parties, whereas in the UK there is a healthy culture of journalists speaking truth to power by making jokes about Boris Johnson's extra-marital affairs and Eric Pickles being fat.

Ironically Giscard was undoubtedly the least corrupt French president after the unimpeachable De Gaulle. L'affaire des diamants was exposed by Le canard enchainé, a publication that mixes a small amount of investigative journalism with unsourced political gossip and corny jokes (which is probably why it strikes a chord with Hislop). But the story was overblown: the value of the diamonds given to Giscard was nothing like what the Canard reported; and Giscard was actually instrumental in withdrawing French support for Bokassa, with whom he was never as close as was insinuated. But his image was that of a humble Auvergnat, a man too dignified for party politics, too holy for self-enrichment, and the diamonds in his drawer undermined that.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Private Eye's "Piloti" column is rubbish too.

With their usual depth of research on Tower Hamlets, he basically accused them of building a new school on the graveyard of Christ Church Spitalfields for a laugh.

It was an extension to an existing school (cunningly camouflaged by the name Christ Church Primary School). And they can't build new schools because Gove banned them from doing that. Building extensions to schools in Zone 1 isn't easy.

They printed my letter pointing this out, to be fair.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

It is if you share Hislop's view that anywhere south of Bexhill is a place where politics is all about backhanders and bunga bunga parties, whereas in the UK there is a healthy culture of journalists speaking truth to power by making jokes about Boris Johnson's extra-marital affairs and Eric Pickles being fat.

well there is another major difference too. France is still heavily involved in their former empire, and much of their wealth comes from still owning and controlling a lot of the wealth in those countries, through exploitation of oil and natural resources. And of course in 1945 England gave their empire their freedom, having elevated them to the level of development consistent with success as independent states....

[Jimski]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

I thought Hislop was a Lib Dem, although I may be mistaken.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Is anyone really a lib dem though?

[Lucia Lanigan]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Yeah, plenty of people. They're a bit like nice UKIP, in that they're interested in politics and democracy and stuff but don't seem to have a coherent outlook or attitude.

I know a lot of journalists rate it, but whenever I've looked at Private Eye it's been dreadful. Oddly antiquated cartoons with bizarre attitudes to sex and gender, along with roving insinuations of corruption that don't seem to connect. The fact that Hislop was in the pigfucker fraternity does chime with his lack of bite as a satirist, I reckon. I can see how it might be good at turning up otherwise neglected stories but the fuddy duddy attitude works against that.

[Patrick Thistle]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

I gave up on Private Eye when I was a teenager. (Used to read it at VI Form)

Even then the only bit that really spoke truth to power was the Paul Foot column and that got tedious after a while.

It's one of those things where they say some stuff you think is controversial and outrageous but there's no comebacks. No one's going into their offices with guns. Their staffers won't be disappeared by the authorities or drug lords.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Yeah, to the Irish reader, Private eye screams that the people involved haven't fully left their school yet. I'm sure that it's equally obvious to an english person, though trickier to spot now that that seems to cover every part of the uk media.

[Vulgarian Visigoth]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Jimski wrote: I thought Hislop was a Lib Dem, although I may be mistaken.

He always struck me as a Lib Dem, for some reason. But what are Lib Dems but Tories with a hint of a conscience, after all.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Or "New Labour", as Tony Blair called them.

[MsD]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

Very obvious to me. They're just the same as Boris Johnson with his "I shouldn't really say it, oh bugger, put my foot in it" bollocks, making cheeky jokes but not really angry with the system, not wanting to challenge it, as it serves them quite well. They can afford the lawsuits (not directly from PE) and to make the odd enemy.

I think Hislop does think he's on the side of right when he goes after someone corrupt, like Robert Maxwell, but he doesn't seem to want to prevent people like Robert Maxwell rising to the top in the future.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Private Eye/HIGNFY/Ian Hislop & VGE

There are bits like "In The City" which seem to be pretty strongly going after Maxwell-types. I'm not really sure I trust it though.