Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Corb Blimey!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by MsD View Post
    Labour friends of colour are very upset by the symbolism of a 40-strong all-white guard escorting Ms Smeeth past the scary black and Asian activists.

    I'm upset and sick about the whole thing.
    Your friends want to be careful about that. It could be misconstrued as weaponising an accusation of racism for political ends.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Lucy Waterman View Post
      Your friends want to be careful about that. It could be misconstrued as weaponising an accusation of racism for political ends.
      "want to be careful" sounds very much like a threat, at worst, and the whole post sounds like a sneery, callous statement of disregard for their feelings.

      Comment


        There's a lot of bad faith all around with this. I really didn't like the 'it looks like a lynch mob' stuff that went out, they were perfectly entitled to walk with Smeeth - to 'demonstrate', if you like - just as Greenstein and his mates were perfectly entitled to protest.

        Smeeth's statement didn't mention anti-semitism because their wasn't any; that's been the strangest thing about this whole Wadsworth saga (as opposed to the Livingston one), it's been a sort of proxy war.

        It's entirely plausible that 'Smeeth felt she was under anti-semitic attack' and 'Wadsworth was not being in any way anti-semitic' can both be true.

        Comment


          Wadsworth WAS accused of anti-semitism by Smeeth and others at the time; she deleted her posts about it and seems to have withdrawn that particular charge, partly because footage was being shared and her account questioned.

          In one video that I can no longer find, someone was talking quietly to Smeeth at the meeting saying "anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism" when Wadsworth was making his address.

          Comment


            This verdict is likely to embolden yer genuine antisemitic cranks within and without the left, who'll seize on this decision to say, "Ooh, look, the Big Global Conspiracy (nudge nudge) has stitched things up again". It's really not good news all this.

            Comment


              Tony Greenstein's was expelled months ago, but he keeps popping up with Labour Against The Witch Hunt. Is there any way that he can at least be kept away from stuff with the Labour name on it?

              Comment


                Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                Tony Greenstein's was expelled months ago, but he keeps popping up with Labour Against The Witch Hunt. Is there any way that he can at least be kept away from stuff with the Labour name on it?
                Not as far as I know, in the same way that LAAS bring the name into disrepute. Slightly related, I narrowly lost a vote to stop him carrying the Momentum one the other week...

                Comment


                  Originally posted by MsD View Post
                  "want to be careful" sounds very much like a threat, at worst, and the whole post sounds like a sneery, callous statement of disregard for their feelings.
                  I don't see how it can be construed as a threat. I'm happy to stand by it.

                  Comment


                    And I'm not sure what could be more sneers, callous and indeed cynical than pretending to find the sight of someone walking down the street with Jess Phillips racist.
                    Edit - actually, there's loads of things. I'm overstating it there.

                    Comment


                      You really like misrepresenting the opponent's position, don't you?

                      There are serious issues about the BBC's representation, especially on the today programme since it has been edited by Sarah Sands, former ally of Boris Johnson of the Evening Standard. Or Andrew neil's recent presentation of a Spectator event warmly supporting Victor Orban, or the repeated appearances of Farage on BBC Question Time. Ridiculing them doesn't make them untrue.

                      Comment


                        I don't think the angle suggested by MsD does her cause any favours, but I shouldn't be the one stopping her.

                        And while I agree that there are problems with BBC balance, the complaints about are imo hilariously overstated. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

                        Comment


                          There were a number of Jewish people in that guard thing. The suggestion, probably unwittingly, is that they're "white". I'm not sure that's a very useful implication here.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by johnr View Post
                            Not as far as I know, in the same way that LAAS bring the name into disrepute. Slightly related, I narrowly lost a vote to stop him carrying the Momentum one the other week...
                            Your efforts on that score are appreciated.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                              And to correct myself, it seems that you can't be expelled for anti-semitism as that isn't a reason listed in the rule book. Yet, I assume.
                              There was no specific rule against anti-Semitism or even racism in the rule book in 2016 when the offense occurred. There is in the 2018 rule book, because, in spite of the continual claims that Labour are doing nothing, Labour are doing something.

                              Ironically, I think if Wadsworth was charged with anti-Semitism I think he'd have been cleared as there would be no evidence to support it - but "bringing the party into disrepute" might just have been made to stick, giving the furore that followed, even though that was clearly politically motivated.

                              Livingstone was also suspended for bringing the party into disrepute. I think this might send a signal to him that he'll be spending more time with his newts.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by MsD View Post
                                "want to be careful" sounds very much like a threat, at worst, and the whole post sounds like a sneery, callous statement of disregard for their feelings.
                                Originally posted by Lucy Waterman View Post
                                I don't see how it can be construed as a threat. I'm happy to stand by it.
                                So you're OK with sneery callous disregard? Glad to hear it since it seemed like a very fair characterisation of your post

                                Comment


                                  https://twitter.com/GHNeale/status/989967000616210434

                                  at the time Smeeth saw the incident as reason to call on Corbyn to resign as leader, (which i think tells you all you need to know)

                                  read this on Marc Wadsworth's wikipedia page

                                  Born in Birmingham, England, Wadsworth spent his first six years in a children's home and was then raised in foster care for a further year. He recalls being the only black student at an all-white secondary school in Surrey. Initially bullied, he took up amateur boxing at 13, inspired by Muhammad Ali, whose politics he would later describe as Black Pride and Black Power.[6][7]

                                  His father George "Busha" Rowe had emigrated to Britain from Jamaica in 1944 and volunteered in the Royal Air Force in World War II.[8] Wadsworth has said that his mother is Finnish.[9][10] Wadsworth made a documentary film Divided by Race, United in War and Peace about his late father's fellow Caribbean war veterans and their struggles against colour prejudice and racism.[11][12] The BBC remade the film, with Wadsworth as a producer, and, in May 2015, Fighting for King and Empire: Britain’s Caribbean Heroes was broadcast.[13] The film was subsequently shown at the Frontline Club in September 2015.[14] In November 2016 the film was repeated by the BBC during Remembrance Sunday week.

                                  Career
                                  Wadsworth helped to secure "black sections" (caucuses) within the Labour Party, first tabled in 1983, to further the cause of greater African, Caribbean and Asian political representation. All four of Britain's first minority African, Caribbean and Asian members of parliament of modern times were members.[15][2] He was then founder of the Anti-Racist Alliance (ARA) in 1991,[2] and helped set up the campaign for justice after the 1993 murder of Stephen Lawrence.[2] The ARA succeeded in getting human rights lawyer Geoffrey Bindman to draft a groundbreaking bill to make racial harassment and racial violence specific criminal offences, which proposals actually became law years later.[16]
                                  Last edited by Nefertiti2; 28-04-2018, 10:03.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    So you're OK with sneery callous disregard? Glad to hear it since it seemed like a very fair characterisation of your post
                                    Sneery and callous are subjective, but I'm happy with disregard. I have no problem with having disregard for what I consider utterly spurious, maliciously-motivated allegations of racism. And to judge by their comments about Ruth Smeeth, neither do plenty of other posters, so they should stop pretending to have a fit of the vapors about it.

                                    Comment


                                      David Rosenberg’s account on Facebook is well worth a read. I’d suggest everyone read it. He was present at the original meeting and yesterday’s hearing. His posts are set to public, and I’m referring to his long post about 10.30 last night.

                                      He’s a highly respected, articulate Jewish historian and longstanding Labour Party member so maybe his account won’t be dismissed quite as sneerily as my posts.

                                      As for people “pretending to be upset”, I may address that more later, but my friend, a prize-winning author, was one of those pointing out how it looked, and how it made her feel, and questioning whether she as a black woman had any place in the LP now, and whether mainstream feminism was inclusive, at all. She’s a strong and intelligent woman, not given to the “vapours”, having got kinda used to racism after 50 years of living in the UK. She just doesn’t expect it from within the Party. (She also quoted another Jewish writer, William Sutcliffe, who questions why anti-Semitism is being prioritised over other forms of racism at this time.)

                                      The discussion on her FB page was effectively closed down by a Jewish acquaintance who stated herself to be upset at the notion that anyone could be more upset or feel more under attack than Jewish people at this time. It’s not Upset Top Trumps, there needs to be awareness all around.

                                      Anyway, read David Rosenberg’s account.
                                      Last edited by MsD; 28-04-2018, 08:24.

                                      Comment


                                        In other news.

                                        https://twitter.com/JWoodcockMP/status/989974818903687168

                                        Comment


                                          David Blunkett said more or less the same thing.

                                          Comment


                                            There are lots of prizewinning authors on here, MsD. If your friend can be made to feel all that by the sight of some MPs walking down the road together and still not get the irony of being so blind to the feelings of Ruth Smeeth, I'm happy to disregard. Maybe she's not pretending, maybe she just doesn't get it. You're welcome to talk about this further if you want to, but I can't be bothered. I think it's poisonous for the public image of Corbyn supporters, but why should I care about that?

                                            Comment


                                              Read David Rosenberg’s account.

                                              No-one is blind to anti-Semitism, they’re just acutely aware of other forms of racism, and bullying.

                                              Comment


                                                As a person who (unlike Ruth Smeeth) lost direct family during the Shoah I find her abuse of the holocaust for narrow politcal ends to be an absolute disgrace. it's fuck-all to do with her feelings. The claim of an anti semititic trope when she's accused of " working hand in hand" with a Telegraph journalsit when she was working hand in hand with a Telegraph journalist is an abomination. She has two aims. To get Corbyn out. To protect Israel. She used to work with BICOM. there may be genuine MP's who went ont hat march. Certainly Alf Dubs is a manI have a lot of time for. But Smeeth is a creep.



                                                Here's the David Rosenberg piece.


                                                It's pretty good. I will not be told by non Jews what Ruth Smeeth;'s feelings are. I will not have the Jewish identity of comrades like, say, David Rosenberg, or Rhea Wolfson, or Jon Lansman or David Schneider or Lynne Segal, erased because they disagree with the Board of Deputies and Labout Friends of Israel on Israel/Palestine or on Jeremy Corbyn.
                                                She wanted to distract attention from the (pretty good) Chakrabarti report which was discredited on no evidence and then not implemented by Ian McNicoll. Today Michael Gove used labour's "antisemitism" to defend Amber Rudd. Any Labour member who has enabled that is a disgrace- those few who have perpetrated antisemtism and those rather more who have allowed it to be weaponised by the Israel lobby and the right.

                                                42 people demosrating peacefully have been shot dead in cold blood in Gaza and thousands have been injured, And we are talking about Labour "anti-semitism." I guess Ruth Smeeth is feeling pretty satisfied about that- it used to be her job.
                                                Last edited by Nefertiti2; 28-04-2018, 08:49.

                                                Comment


                                                  Give it up. I told you, I can't see that Wadsworth did all that much wrong. But this is a no-win situation.

                                                  Comment


                                                    So we're agreed. an injustice has been done.

                                                    I probably wouldn't say it publicly. In this toxic environment few dare to speak out. those like Clive Lewis who defended Wadsworth. (a man who grew up in a children's home. became a Tv presenter, and was one of the people responsible if wikipedia is correct for getting anti racism legislation onthe statute book) have been slurred as antisemitic. But an injustice has been done. And that was Smeeth's intention. And as her original press statement shows she was using Wadsworth to attack Corbyn.

                                                    It confirms my opinion that I wouldn't trust her for a second. No doubt she would try and spin that as an anti-semitic trope too.

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X