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    Corb Blimey!

    The bit about Marx in the NS article did make me tut, to be honest. And re. Israel, I think the point was that states created as a refuge from genocidal persecution are not the same as states created as outposts for a major power.

    As I see it, the NS piece leaves out a few important considerations, while that other article fills them in but adds some highly questionable assertions. Mind you, if you were to replace that increasingly loosely-defined term Zionism with something like "bad shit that Israel does", I'd certainly agree with that final sentence, which maybe the authors of the Staggers piece wouldn't.

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      Corb Blimey!

      Lang Spoon wrote: But who is the leftist standard bearer that will take over in 2018? Do they have anyone capable of being principled and electable? Can't say I've got my full attention on the bright young things of the E&W Labour left
      Good question. Has to be someone who's been around since at least the last Parliament. Or perhaps Keir Starmer if he's put in a senior brief soon and can make an impression. I don't think anyone could argue that being head of the CPS wasn't proper experience.

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        Corb Blimey!

        To be fair to Alan Johnson, it looks like the low profile might have been part of a Labour strategy to do the local elections first. That went OK really.

        Gordo pitched in today.

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          Corb Blimey!

          Laura Kuenssberg's pals in the Conservative party standing up for her in PMQs today against the bullying she receives online. Unfortunately, they chose notorious bully Lucy Allen to speak. Oops.

          And the criticism of Kuenssberg is apropos to the anti-semitism issue. There have been a handful of horrible, sexist comments made against her, and plenty of genuine criticisms of her partisan reporting, yet her supporters would seek to sweep all criticism away under the pretences of it being "sexist". The modern world!

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            Corb Blimey!

            That Kuensberg petition was cretinous and politically illiterate anyway. Glad it's gone

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              Corb Blimey!

              Yeah. The NUJ rightly knocked it back strongly.

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                Corb Blimey!

                Meh, for someone in a position like Kuenssberg that's not a completely compelling argument. A bit like calling for a useless manager of your football team to get sacked, it's a position where different rules apply.

                Still, not that bothered, I guess the petition has done it's work: get Cameron up in parliament white-knighting for the BBC's chief political correspondent. I guess the labour leadership will be happy enough to have blown the gaff to that extent.

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                  Corb Blimey!

                  Certainly politically illiterate in the sense that, yeah, sack Kuenssberg, and who do the people who appointed her appoint to replace her? You need to go higher than her, certainly. In fact, you probably need to go outside the BBC altogether.

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                    Corb Blimey!

                    Shami Chakrabarti joined Labour the day she agreed to investigate anti-Semitism. She won't be seeking a submission from Livingstone and can't compel anyone to make a submission.

                    This looks very amateurish.

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                      Corb Blimey!

                      Why do you come to that conclusion?

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                        Corb Blimey!

                        Ah to be fair, she is worried about prejudicing the personal inquiry Livingstone faces. Think better to wait for that to be concluded.

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                          Corb Blimey!

                          Tubby Isaacs wrote: Shami Chakrabarti joined Labour the day she agreed to investigate anti-Semitism. She won't be seeking a submission from Livingstone and can't compel anyone to make a submission.

                          This looks very amateurish.
                          That would make procedural sense, but then the wanker brigade would accuse them of dragging their heels BECAUSE THEY'RE VICIOUS ANTI-SEMITES

                          (I assume 'can't compel' means she has no ability to make non-compulsion a breach of party rules? And is that something that is her gift, or the NECs?)

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                            Corb Blimey!

                            Yeah, fair point about how a delay would be seen.

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                              Corb Blimey!

                              The inquiry's a dumb idea. Just makes for another week of headlines when it reports. Corbyn should have had the balls to expel Ken.

                              There's only one question worth asking - does the leader put up with what was said? And Corbyn won't answer it.

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                                Corb Blimey!

                                I don't care about Ken but I know of two other suspensions which smack of being trumped up for others' agendas and I would hope they get a proper hearing and their suspensions overturned

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                                  Corb Blimey!

                                  NEC can do that. Nothing particular against her, but none of us voted for Shami Chakrabati.

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                                    Corb Blimey!

                                    Yeah but NEC blah Momentum blah blah anti-Semites. That would get slammed in itself.

                                    Liked the idea of it being someone from outside. Looks silly that Shami joined Labour and didn't tell anyone till today.

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                                      Corb Blimey!

                                      Lucy Waterman wrote: NEC can do that. Nothing particular against her, but none of us voted for Shami Chakrabati.
                                      Given that the right seem to have trouble accepting the results of an actual vote, I don't see how that would make any difference.

                                      Sadiq Khan, in The Guardian at the weekend, put the onus firmly on Corbyn to unite the party, by doing the things Blair did and becoming "electable" - ie, exactly the stuff that the people who voted for Corbyn have had enough of. The man cannot win with those people.

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                                        Corb Blimey!

                                        Kangaroo court on twitter in full effect re a Labour activist, Jackie Walker.

                                        Her Facebook post mentioned "many Jews were the chief financiers of slavery". But I am very uncomfortable how many people don't even want to hear her defence.

                                        I recall Patrick "black bastards" Mercer getting merely demoted from his Shadow Minister job. And everyone said "well done liberal moderniser Cameron"

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                                          Corb Blimey!

                                          Well, many chief financiers of slavery were chief financiers of slavery. There has historically been a Jewish presence in finance, for well known reasons.

                                          What's her defence, other than she's a fucking fool to even go there?

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                                            Corb Blimey!

                                            It's all on p.116 of this thread.

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                                              Corb Blimey!

                                              I don't know what her defence/mitigation was. If this is the only evidence against her, then maybe she could argue it was simply a mistaken belief, based vaguely on her knowing about the Rothschild family being very powerful at about the right time.

                                              She might have been thinking about a particular area- seems from Wiki that Dutch Jews were very important in slavery in Suriname. She seems to be talking about her own Jewish ancestors. Maybe they were important slave traders/owners. And anyway, there's always more latitude to people making outrageous/racist statements from within that race. See Trevor Phillips.

                                              There was also a controversy a few years ago where Nathan Mayer Rothschild, known for helping abolish slavery was said to have profited from it too. It was in the FT, and a few days later they ran an article making clear that the profit had been less than the cost incurred later aiding its abolition. It might be that she caught some of that controversy and got in a mess.

                                              Whatever, she seems to have persuaded the discipline panel. And one might compare the lack of action against the PM and his candidate for London Mayor for their shit v Sadiq Khan.

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                                                Corb Blimey!

                                                johnr wrote: It's all on p.116 of this thread.
                                                Thanks, johnr - dunno why I bit there, tbh.

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                                                  Corb Blimey!

                                                  No prob. It's a bad phrase and does tie in with the anti-semitic trope of "the Jews are behind the bad stuff", and it's wrong.

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                                                    Corb Blimey!

                                                    I didn't mean to imply any criticism of you there, Tubby. I was more annoyed with myself for firing off a pretty flip response onto a 120 page thread.

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