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    Good stuff. Hope they can squeeze in the freedom of movement vote too. There's been good actual policy at this conference amid the shambolic manouevrings, smoke-filled room bollocks and posturing.

    Walking out on Watson is a shit tactic - one of a few this week from some on the left - and will give him the attention he wants. Stay in the pub, and ignore him

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      Both of which are good news, especially given the GMB opposition.

      What's happened to the FoM motion?

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        Originally posted by Etienne View Post
        Both of which are good news, especially given the GMB opposition.

        What's happened to the FoM motion?
        Was due for voting this afternoon, but may get squeezed out now that Corbyn's speech has been brought forward.

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          Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
          Labour has just voted for a Green New Deal and to be carbon neutral by 2030
          Have you got yourself on Ignore Poster, Nef? ;-)

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            Originally posted by Kevin S View Post

            Have you got yourself on Ignore Poster, Nef? ;-)
            Hasn't everyone?

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              What a great speech from Corbyn - that is, from the heart, impassioned and absolutely hitting the right notes. The comments on Facebook have been overwhelmingly positive. Critics can stick a cynical spin on it if they like, but people's hearts have been crying out for this sort of straight talking. Johnson's jokes and schoolboy Latin don't stand a chance. IMO.

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                "Straight talking". After years of vapid aspirational bullshit, this is what I like about him. And his line about the economy not being some object that we must bow down to really resonated.

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                  this is good too - though unbelievable that it's come to this


                  https://twitter.com/SueHayman1/status/1176417842851459072?s=20

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                    Originally posted by johnr View Post

                    I've read it again. I do honestly think that. You can try and show me the pictures/footage from all 3 votes, and show where I'm wrong. And you can try and show how, across the 3 votes, the members didn't support Corbyn. And you can try and not be so patronising, whilst you're doing it.
                    You can't be happy with this. this is a farce. look at how this is decided. I can't believe that you could be remotely happy about this. You have to see how bad that looks. that's very troubling on so many levels. Why not just count the fucking votes? This is supposed to be important. Add this to the Watson stunt, and the labour leadership look staggeringly shady. If you don't actually count the votes, the only vote that seems to matter is Jenny Formby, the general secretary, and very much part of the leadership team. I've got to say that this really worries me. This is a very bad trait in a political party. And it's not like this isn't an important issue.

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                      Each of those hands in the air represent one delegate. CLPs get to send different number of delegates, depending on the size of the CLP. My CLP is entitled to eight delegates, one of the neighboruing one gets to send two.

                      Not everybody gets to send all their delegates. It's expensive attending conference, and the CLP funding delegates often isn't possible. Then you have the fact that conference season comes at at awkward time for people who want to go (schools are in, the university year inductions are happening for two), and people's personal circumstances dictate that conference is inaccessible for a whole host of members.

                      On a show of hands, only the delegates in the room get to vote, and each hand represents one delegate. On the card vote (as I understand it), the lead delegate votes with the card for all of the delegates for that CLP. So instead of our eight votes being counted by card, one was counted in the room.

                      There should have been a card vote.

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                        Every motion should be a card vote. Voting by hands in a conference hall is absurd

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                          Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post

                          You can't be happy with this. this is a farce. look at how this is decided. I can't believe that you could be remotely happy about this. You have to see how bad that looks. that's very troubling on so many levels. Why not just count the fucking votes? This is supposed to be important. Add this to the Watson stunt, and the labour leadership look staggeringly shady. If you don't actually count the votes, the only vote that seems to matter is Jenny Formby, the general secretary, and very much part of the leadership team. I've got to say that this really worries me. This is a very bad trait in a political party. And it's not like this isn't an important issue.
                          I'm not happy with it - I already said it was clumsy, and I'm not really sure why we haven't moved to some technological fix instead of waving hands in the air. I'd seen other pictures of those 3 votes, it looked clear to me - and you haven't actually shown anything to the contrary. There hasn't been any major pushback on this, so I'll say it again - the 'vote was invalid' stuff was just noise, and your 'I've rarely seen such an example of my team right or wrong, motivated reasoning outside of RAWK' was patronising, hyperbolic, nonsense.

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                            Technology has still to arrive in the Commons, so...

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                              [URL]https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status/1178262811295789056?s=21[/URL]

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                                Originally posted by johnr View Post

                                I'm not happy with it - I already said it was clumsy, and I'm not really sure why we haven't moved to some technological fix instead of waving hands in the air. I'd seen other pictures of those 3 votes, it looked clear to me - and you haven't actually shown anything to the contrary. There hasn't been any major pushback on this, so I'll say it again - the 'vote was invalid' stuff was just noise, and your 'I've rarely seen such an example of my team right or wrong, motivated reasoning outside of RAWK' was patronising, hyperbolic, nonsense.
                                This isn't clumsy. This is deliberate. And your failure to recognize it as such is why I'm comparing you to one of the more enthusiastic members of RAWK. This is a chairperson calling a show of hands one way, being overruled by a leadership apparatchik, and then refusing to actually count the votes to maintain party unity . This isn't an oversight, this isn't a time saving measure, this is the members clearly and deliberately getting fucked by the leadership, who turned a supposed vote of the members into a display of one woman one vote, and that one woman with the one vote is Jenny Formby. Maybe most of the CLP delegates and union votes would have lined up behind the leadership, but they weren't prepared to take that chance, because they might not get what their preferred result.

                                I never want to hear anything ever again about members votes, or the leadership being backed by the members, or the people's democracy washing away the centrists. You are being fucked by shady shady people, who say nice sounding things, that sound appealing, but they themselves are every bit as shady and undemocratic as alastair campbell of peter mandelson, who I keep being told are the fountain of evil.

                                If Someone who says a bunch of stuff you agree with turns out to be a shady cunt, the first doesn't excuse the second. It just means that they a cunt all along, and you were their mark. I know you may not want to hear that now, but maybe you should. This whole thing is built on a foundation of shit. It's just the same type of cunts, they're just wearing different hats.

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                                  Jennie.

                                  The rest is spot on.

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                                    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post

                                    This isn't clumsy. This is deliberate. And your failure to recognize it as such is why I'm comparing you to one of the more enthusiastic members of RAWK. This is a chairperson calling a show of hands one way, being overruled by a leadership apparatchik, and then refusing to actually count the votes to maintain party unity . This isn't an oversight, this isn't a time saving measure, this is the members clearly and deliberately getting fucked by the leadership, who turned a supposed vote of the members into a display of one woman one vote, and that one woman with the one vote is Jenny Formby. Maybe most of the CLP delegates and union votes would have lined up behind the leadership, but they weren't prepared to take that chance, because they might not get what their preferred result.

                                    I never want to hear anything ever again about members votes, or the leadership being backed by the members, or the people's democracy washing away the centrists. You are being fucked by shady shady people, who say nice sounding things, that sound appealing, but they themselves are every bit as shady and undemocratic as alastair campbell of peter mandelson, who I keep being told are the fountain of evil.

                                    If Someone who says a bunch of stuff you agree with turns out to be a shady cunt, the first doesn't excuse the second. It just means that they a cunt all along, and you were their mark. I know you may not want to hear that now, but maybe you should. This whole thing is built on a foundation of shit. It's just the same type of cunts, they're just wearing different hats.
                                    You still have the opportunity to show me the footage showing those votes actually went the other way, and/or show me the pushback from other members demonstrating that/complaining about the votes were wrong (rather than a response in the moment). Take your time. Or, carry on making well-written and hyperbolic comments describing what's in your head - or what you have liked to have happened - rather than what actually happened.

                                    Of course you don't want to hear about member's votes. I wouldn't think otherwise.

                                    'RAWK' - lol. I'm their 'mark' - even bigger lol. But thanks for the insight.

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                                      You still have the opportunity to show me the footage showing those votes actually went the other way, and/or show me the pushback from other members demonstrating that/complaining about the votes were wrong (rather than a response in the moment).

                                      You miss the point entirely. This isn't about the votes of the members, ti's about the process employed, that effectively rendered them irrelevant. This is a vital issue, and that was a fucking farce.

                                      DA explained clearly why a show of hands is at best a poor means of gauging what the membership wants because not all hands are equal. Some hands represent more delegates than others. Also what would footage show and what would it matter? It was obviously close enough, that the chairwoman thought it had passed, until she was told that it wasn't, and that was that. The actual votes don't matter, because no-one fucking counted them. I don't understand why you can't see the problem with that. And don't take the reaction of other delegates as your gauge for what is right or wrong. You are a full grown adult, capable of making up your own mind. If you still don't have a problem with what happened there, I suggest you re-examine how you made up your own mind.

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                                        You doth protest too much.

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                                          Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                          You still have the opportunity to show me the footage showing those votes actually went the other way, and/or show me the pushback from other members demonstrating that/complaining about the votes were wrong (rather than a response in the moment).

                                          You miss the point entirely. This isn't about the votes of the members, ti's about the process employed, that effectively rendered them irrelevant. This is a vital issue, and that was a fucking farce.

                                          DA explained clearly why a show of hands is at best a poor means of gauging what the membership wants because not all hands are equal. Some hands represent more delegates than others. Also what would footage show and what would it matter? It was obviously close enough, that the chairwoman thought it had passed, until she was told that it wasn't, and that was that. The actual votes don't matter, because no-one fucking counted them. I don't understand why you can't see the problem with that. And don't take the reaction of other delegates as your gauge for what is right or wrong. You are a full grown adult, capable of making up your own mind. If you still don't have a problem with what happened there, I suggest you re-examine how you made up your own mind.
                                          I am missing your point then. I thought you were making the case that the vote should have been called the other way, rather than agreeing with me that the process of counting votes should be improved, which I've already stated. Twice. 'I'm not happy with it - I already said it was clumsy, and I'm not really sure why we haven't moved to some technological fix instead of waving hands in the air.'
                                          Last edited by johnr; 30-09-2019, 07:09.

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                                            I also think that TAB is working on the misapprehension that Nichols thought the vote had gone the other way, rather than being confused over whether the result meant it had been carried or defeated. Which was what Formby corrected. Given how divisive an issue it is, there's no conceivable way that Labour supporters for the motion would have quietly acquiesced if they thought they might have won the vote. It's obviously a poor voting system, but I imagine itd be extremely expensive to set one up that wasn't.

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                                              What? She thought that the word for a motion having a majority of votes against it is "Carried?" That's not what he says. And they don't seem to have widely acquiesced, there's that woman standing up there making clear that she is pissed off, and wanting a card vote, like all the other ones they had the day before, only to be told "Trust me, Im in the union."

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                                                Glad to see your focus, is, as ever on the real enemy.

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                                                  TAB Dem

                                                  [URL]https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1178784631895842818?s=21[/URL]

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                                                    She is a terrible terrible bastard and will
                                                    doom us all if she can for the sake of mibees at most on a good day 100 seats next election. Fucking posh Glasgow bastards are the worst. Kuenssberg, Swinson, Esler, their names will live forever in infamy.
                                                    Last edited by Lang Spoon; 30-09-2019, 23:20.

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