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    Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    If the price of stopping a Corbyn Government is to sacrifice their own careers on the way, I'm pretty sure they will do it.
    one thing Watson will never do is sacrifice his own career. But I'm sure "the man who stoped Corbyn" will be handsomely rewarded. Like the man who turned a blind eye to torture is

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      https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1149445708732338183

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        This is all so fucked. I don't doubt that Watson is playing silly games, and I trust Dawn Foster and even Owen Jones more than the Centrist fucks, but every minute of explaining, the Labour Left is losing. I have a hellish Vision. Of Jo Fucking Swinson as Westminster Kingmaker. Bring it all down.

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          what should Labour do, then? Watson is trying to provoke a war and split the party before an election. There's no reconciliation possible.

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            It seems beyond saving.

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              Youse went from hegemony to nothing in Scotland between 2010 and 15, I fear that's going to happen in England now in yr "heartlands". People don't generally vote for a party that's tearing itself apart. A fuck awful Brexit policy from the leadership will also be culpable but.

              Watson as Diamond Jim Murphy. I'd also put money on Plaid leading a minority govt in the Welsh Assembly next vote, prob the reason for WLAb First Minister making noises about possible Welsh IndyRef if Brexit goes as well as expected.
              Last edited by Lang Spoon; 12-07-2019, 00:14.

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                It's v v depressing (at least the England vista).

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                  Tell me about it.

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                    What's weird is that in terms of policy Labour has been fantastic. From the Preston model to Leasehold reform, or Land ownership Labour seems to be the only source of new ideas. And yet the determination of the right to take their ball home means there's a good chance that it won't ever be realised, whilst the state of the media means that none of it is ever discussed.

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                      It's not as if a Labour collapse in England would result in an immediate improvement, governmentally, as it has is Scotland.

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                        What's weird is that in terms of policy Labour has been fantastic. From the Preston model to Leasehold reform, or Land ownership Labour seems to be the only source of new ideas. And yet the determination of the right to take their ball home means there's a good chance that it won't ever be realised, whilst the state of the media means that none of it is ever discussed.
                        Yeah indeed. Feel sorry for McDonnell, Long-Bailey and their teams in particular, as they've been beavering away on all manner of stuff while this shit's been going on.

                        I'm not a fan of those bleating excessively about the BBC docco - it's a colossal waste of energy, apart from anything else - but dear Lord Watson is a poisonous fuck who needs to be removed. His main strategy seems to be actually destroy the process by which antisemitism cases might be prosecuted. Wish I'd never voted him as second choice in 2015, though the alternatives were dismal too.

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                          You didn't have to vote for any of them.

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                            Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post

                            Yeah indeed. Feel sorry for McDonnell, Long-Bailey and their teams in particular, as they've been beavering away on all manner of stuff while this shit's been going on.

                            I'm not a fan of those bleating excessively about the BBC docco - it's a colossal waste of energy, apart from anything else - but dear Lord Watson is a poisonous fuck who needs to be removed. His main strategy seems to be actually destroy the process by which antisemitism cases might be prosecuted. Wish I'd never voted him as second choice in 2015, though the alternatives were dismal too.
                            I don’t the Labour Party pushing back against some very shabby journalism from the BBC is “bleating “. I think it’s essential.

                            i speak personally here. My identity as a left wing Jew is being erased whilst the likes of Ella Rose are being represented as the only acceptable kinds of Jew in the Labour Party.

                            The long Jewish Labour/left tradition which included Manny Shinwell, Tony Judt, Margot Heinemann. Gerald Kaufman and many many others is being reduced to One identity and one position on Israel.

                            The right are even claiming that to be anti capitalist is to be antisemitic as “ Jews are rich”.

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                              Which itself is a fundamentally antisemitic position

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                                Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                Which itself is a fundamentally antisemitic position
                                but not one of much concern to the Jewish Labour Movement or the Board of Deputies

                                It was Siobhain McDonagh

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                                  So Momentum have chosen today to announce a campaign for open selections, suggesting that somebody in their upper ranks is familiar with the term “”dead cat on the table””.

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                                    Not the only people looking for dead cats, perhaps

                                    https://twitter.com/philbc3/status/1149594031044743168

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                                      Thornberry good today - alone in seeming to realise that attacking the license fee and inciting your former employees to sue you isn’t textbook news management.

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                                        This is good from New Socialist on Chris Williamson

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                                          Margaret Hodge in the Guardian, demonstrating a total lack of self awareness:

                                          Hateful language has now become part of mainstream political discourse.
                                          https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...margaret-hodge

                                          Yeah, Marge. Calling someone a "fucking anti-Semite and a racist" will tend to lower the tone.

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                                            If your torch isn't flaming you must be an antisemite too

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                                              I don't think this is how it works...

                                              https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1151438493593325568

                                              Also, this is the sort of thing that they want, right? Oh. I forget. Wrong type of people.

                                              https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1151600723420950528

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                                                Watching Wes Streeting contort himself in trying to defend Hayters comments is quite fun. I think he manages to fall under the IHRA definition that he was so in favour of Labour adopting. I wonder if there is a form I can fill in.

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                                                  It’s going to be some pretty impressive Whataboutery if Labour goes after everyone who’s made a Downfall meme.

                                                  They should sack her, you can’t say something like that and remain a shadow minister. But even Seumas in his quote stops short of calling it anti-senitism, because it isn’t.
                                                  Last edited by Lucy Waterman; 18-07-2019, 06:41.

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                                                    There is, yes

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