Originally posted by Lucy Waterman
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Corb Blimey!
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On the topic of bad faith, for the historical record, here are the utternaces of Angela Eagle, on Corbyn's performance in the referendum campaign:
"Jeremy is up and down the country, pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired, he has not stopped."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...kuHDle1nv9SNoY
That was dated 13th June 2016. But just a fortnuight later, Eagle resigned, stating "Too many of our supporters were taken in by right-wing arguments and I believe this happened, in part, because under your leadership the case to remain in the EU was made with half-hearted ambivalence rather than full-throated clarity.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...r-full-8292960
One of these things is not like all the others.
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Originally posted by Lang Spoon View PostNope, but I think there's a lot of Remain 2017 Labour voters who won't be coming back. The equivocation has gone on for too long. I'd imagine Labour will lose seats in the South, as well as at least 5 of the 6 gained in scotland.
That said, it’s reasonable to assume Labour and the Conservatives will improve significantly on their Euro vote shares in a GE. It’s also reasonable to infer from the Euro results that for a significant number of people, the Lib Dems have lost their coalition toxicity - and this amongst 2017 Labour voters, who’d you’d expect to feel that toxicity strongest.
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Boris in a GE will probably focus minds somewhat, but Labour and their surrogates (cough Dawn Foster cough) need to stop ranting against 2017 Labour voters exercising their democratic right to prioritise Brexit over other political issues. Complaining about the Libs having done an austerity isn't working, particularly when part of the FBPE-ex-Labour critique is a hard Brexit (which is what a customs union with no single market membership is) will engender further austerity. That critique seems entirely reasonable, so Foster is basically peddling a false dichotomy since I'm pretty sure she's a Lexiter.
I'm nonplussed by today's announcement. Yes, it's Labour yet again inching farther in the right direction, but Jeremy is right we need a GE, and there is a perverse incentive now for Labour Remainers to not want that to happen, because there is no policy for a second referendum after a Labour GE victory*. Which will be pointed out over and over by the Remainer parties, and therefore will probably result in a Labour GE loss.
* Labour should promise a second referendum even if they win a GE. Negotiate a so-called Labour Brexit (the EU may not want to renegotiate too much on the finer details, but the CU is a bolt-on that everybody would adopt tomorrow and would dramatically lower the stakes on the backstop) and Jez goes full Harold Wilson and sits above the fray.
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And
"complaining about the Libs having done an austerity isn't working, "
has only proved true in the south in a European Parliament election.
"es, it's Labour yet again inching farther in the right direction, but Jeremy is right we need a GE, and there is a perverse incentive now for Labour Remainers to not want that to happen, because there is no policy for a second referendum after a Labour GE victory*."
When you say "Labour Remainers" do you mean Labour supporters who want to stay in the EU or those like Tom Watson and pals who see "Remain"- as they once saw "Ending Free Movement" as the best way t waken Jeremy Corbyn's s position?
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Ah, bad faith in action.
"Labour should support a second referendum"
"We now support a second referendum"
"Yes, but you should be supporting Remain in a second referendum"
"We now support Remain in a second referendum"
"Yes, but you don't actually have the power to call a second referendum"
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Satchmo - But that is moving the goalposts again. (Not, I hasten to add, that I'm accusing you of this.)
Labour's commitment today is above and beyond what the Peoples Vote organisation have been constantly attacking them for and demanding of them for nearly three years. And now Labour have gone above and beyond... I've just checked their Twitter feed and they have said precisely nothing.
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I agree that it's not easy to design a ballot question that's fair to all POVs
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Originally posted by Reginald Christ
Nothing well ever be good enough for the FBPE-ers.
There has to be a price to be paid for being so fucking spectacularly wrong about something so basic.
I agree that it's not easy to design a ballot question that's fair to all POVs
But there are only three options for the uk. Pass the withdrawal agreement, and leave the EU. Forget the whole thing and stay in the EU, or go for a no deal brexit. So vote on those three options. Anything else would simply be yet another childishly and stupidly run referendum.Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 09-07-2019, 14:35.
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Originally posted by Snake Plissken View PostSatchmo - But that is moving the goalposts again. (Not, I hasten to add, that I'm accusing you of this.)
Labour's commitment today is above and beyond what the Peoples Vote organisation have been constantly attacking them for and demanding of them for nearly three years. And now Labour have gone above and beyond... I've just checked their Twitter feed and they have said precisely nothing.
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