Corb Blimey!

[Lang Spoon]

Aye, ignore the panderers left or right. But especially Flint, she can fuck right off. Labour will lose the youth turnout and gains in the South if they give in and look as risible as the Tories.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I presume the Whips had a word with Flint, and she only abstained on the Repeal vote after all her posturing. Or maybe she noticed that Ed Miliband and Rosie Winterton down the road had better 2017 results than her, despite not getting as worked up over the EU as she did.

[Nefertiti2]

Great speech I thought.

[Snake Plissken]

Yes, some pretty good stuff in there. Telling Paul Dacre to shove it, praising Diane Abbott, rent controls, Grenfell. Or as the Torygraph put it "where is the content?"

[Tubby Isaacs]

Where's the money? is a better question. Unless the plan is in a few months, they say "you can have this stuff you want, or Hard Brexit, not both".

[Bernie Hipster]

This year’s Labour conference has been largely overshadowed by a row about antisemitism with the Holocaust mentioned on many occasions, it seems everybody is talking about the Jews and Labour’s antisemitism problem. On Monday evening, at a joint event held by the Holocaust Educational Trust and Antisemitism Policy Trust, Labour MP West Streeting said that there were “a rump of antisemites in the Labour party”, with party leaders adopting an “ostrich-like attitude” to the problem.....Regrettably, and judging by some of the behaviour at Conference, rather than be concerned about antisemitism, some have embraced the issue as a partisan challenge or some kind of game seen through the prism of the different "sides" of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Labour Friends of Israel had an event on the final night of the party’s conference, on many issues I am Jeremy Corbyn's biggest fan, #Hipsters4Corbyn, but I was disappointed he didn't turn up be cause I think he had a perfect opportunity to send a message of support to worried Jewish Labour members. I have to say it was good that Labour delegates have agreed to take a tougher approach to tackling antisemitism in a vote at the conference. The changes mean Labour members could face expulsion and other punishments for Jew-hate. But the discussion was marred by angry scenes as activists clashed over antisemitism, Israel and the role played by Jewish activists in working for the rule change.

One delegate apparently warned those supporting tougher action on antisemitism to "be careful"!

There has been anecdotal incidents aplenty, former Labour Party mayor of London, Ken Livingstone — long the bête noire of British Jews for his association with Islamists and his constant allegations that Adolf Hitler was a supporter of Zionism — told a radio station on Wednesday that making “offensive comments” about Jews was not necessarily a sign of antisemitism, amid a new row over antisemitic displays at Labour’s annual conference. Also at Conference a hard left newspaper was handed out which quoted Reinhard Heydrich, using the top Nazi official as a supposedly reliable source of information about the Holocaust...

We should be cautious about appeals to antisemitism. Antisemitism is not rife in the British Labour party, quite the opposite in fact. It is only thought to be so because Labour is currently led by a team whose political identity is driven first and foremost by a visceral contempt for America and for Israel. Equally, while it is true that Israel’s current policies exacerbate antisemitism, it is not at all true that antisemitism exists because of the Jewish state or that antisemitism would have been extinguished if only the Jewish state had never existed.

This presents young Jews of the left in Britain with a dilemma. On the one hand, many of us feel estranged by a state whose policies so blatantly eschew the long and proud tradition of Jewish cosmopolitanism and social criticism, in Karl Marx or Hannah Arendt. On the other, we are, at times left cold by a Labour leader who, some believe, seemed willing to trade a peerage for a favourable report into antisemitism.

[Etienne]

Hi Bernie, welcome to the board.

I have to say, your post triggered my dormant academic plagiarism antennae, and it seems a bit odd to lift passages direct from the Jewish Chronicle (complete with autocorrect spelling of 'West' Streeting), the Livingstone paragraph from here https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/09/2...t-antisemitic/ and the last two paragraphs straight from here https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-corbyn-israel.

I think it'd be easier to convince people that this is a sincere opinion if you use your own words.

[Nefertiti2]

Fuck Labour Friends of Israel. Fuck those who call a party antisemitic whose last leader, Ed Miliband guest international Speaker Naomi Klein, newly elected NEC member Rhea Wolfson, founder of Momentum Jon Lansman are all Jewish.
The traditional conference antisemitism row in the Daily Mail was triggered by a remark by an Israeli-American Who is not a member of the Labour Party. He is though a peace activist having served in the Israeli special forces, his father was An Israeli general and his grandfather was one of the signatures of the original Israeli founding constitution.

He made a point in discussion that he believed that everything should be capable of being debated and that no opinion should be banned. While one may not agree with him about the Holocaust it is the same position as the American constitution. There is no way whatsoever that Miko Peled is anti Semitic or a Holocaust denier & The accusation by the Daily Mail a few days before Yom Kippur is a disgrace.

As a person of Jewish heritage it's much more concern to me the growing prevalence of anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe , I have a Hungarian Jewish friend who is genuinely scared and horrified about what's happening in her country, including increasing legitimacy been given to the 19th Tiszaeszlár blood libel affair and the repeated anti-Semitic portrayal of George Soros as a string pulling billionaire because of his opposition to Orban and his support for democratic principles . As a Jew she no longer feels safe on the streets.

When the Israeli ambassador complained about the anti-Semitic betrayal of Soros he was told by his own government to shut up. The current Israeli regime hates Soros so much because of his continuing support of Palestinian rights that tolerates anti-Semitic abuse of him . Indeed Benjamin Netanyahu son has been pasting anti-Semitic caricatures of Soros. The alliance between the right-wing Likud government in Israel and Trump and his supporters in the US is increasingly disturbing.

Ed Miliband was attacked by the Jewish community because he wanted to recognise Palestine. He was also the target of some disgraceful anti-Semitic dog whistle attacks by the same newspapers now pretend to be so concerned about anti-Semitism . His father A holocaust survivor served in the British navy at D day was portrayed as a traitor. And repeated snide solutions from made to Miliband's Jewish heritage - Bacon sandwich anyone?

this has nothing whatsoever to do with anti-Semitism in the Labour party and everything to do with closing down discussion about the Occupation now in its 50th year. Opposition in Israel is equally being silenced with organisations like Btselem having more more legal difficulties put in their way to prevent them reporting what's going on in the settlements. ToNight there is an official Israeli government celebration of 50 years of occupation.

We can discuss what the long-term solution in Israel/Palestine should be . It's an enormously difficult problem and it's not clear what the solution should or can be. However it seems exactly the kind of thing that should be being discussed at a Labour Party conference fringe meeting.

The current Israeli government wishes to prevent any discussion about the Occupation and do not want Jeremy Corbyn a man who has supported the Palestinian cause anywhere near government.

Labour Friends of Israel seems to have morphed into Labour Friends of Mark Regev. There are many in the Jewish community who support Jeremy Corbyn just as there are many Jews who are deeply concerned about what's happening in Israel. but people are terrified about speaking out for many reasons. They face hostility from some in the Jewish communities they face dirty tricks (of the kind we've just seen) the refusal to have any honest debate.

Allegations of anti-Semitism are pretty unpleasant for anyone . For Jews they re particularly disturbing.

So fuck those who think the Daily Mail has a greater commitment to fighting anti-Semitism than a Jew whose against the Occupation.

[Bernie Hipster]

I think it'd be easier to convince people that this is a sincere opinion if you use your own words.

WTF are youon about ? I'm a millennial - brought up in a nice comfy middle class, metropolitan liberal bubble, we don't think for ourselves, we don't anticipate, we don't fend for ourselves.... that's what Google is for!!

Observe a young family dining out. Often there is no conversation among generations. Instead, the parents have given their offspring iPads to keep them quiet. But the young/teenage/twenty something kids inhabit a totally different world. We don't really like conflict negotiation, we are unable to think for themselves. The over involvement of helicopter parents, micromanaging us from one activity to another prevents us from learning how to grapple with stuff like politics on our own........ that's what Google is for!!

It’s not easy being a millennial......Rather than spending our university years expanding our intellectual, sexual and chemical horizons, millennials spent theirs wracked with anxiety and struggling to develop identities.....that's what Google is for!!

#Corbyn4PM

[Snake Plissken]

He's not running for PM of Australia.

[Duncan Gardner]

Good post by Nefertiti on this page.

I've been accused of anti-semitism occasionally (I'm a lifelong Atheist who lived in Palestine as a child in the late 60s while my parents worked for the British Foreign Office).

Admittedly on a couple of occasions when I've used the bombing of Gaza, denial of cross-border access and institutionalised aspects of the Jewish State to compare Israel unfavorably with Apartheid South Africa. I don't tend to use that comparison now.

Another was when a house in Belfast previously home to future president Chaim Herzog was vandalised (the local Historical Society had a blue plaque outside*). I merely suggested that deplorable as this was, the killing of various Gaza civilians the previous week had likely prompted it.

* Herzog's father was a rabbi and also landlord to other future politicians Abba Eban and Maxim Litvinov

[G-Man]

Admittedly on a couple of occasions when I've used the bombing of Gaza, denial of cross-border access and institutionalised aspects of the Jewish State to compare Israel unfavorably with Apartheid South Africa. I don't tend to use that comparison now.

Quite rightly so, because apartheid, which was profoundly evil, was never as evil as Israel. Of course, there are the daily humiliations Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories which are analogous with apartheid, but every anti-apartheid veteran who has seen what is being done to Palestinians returns to say that what they saw was much worse than apartheid.

And, indeed, great post by Nefertiti. I'll bookmark it for the next time the Labour as anti-semitic trope is raised.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Is anybody looking properly at voting patterns?

Any sign of quiet Jewish support for Corbyn? Certainly, there's a prima facie case that 3 seats with substantial Jewish populations in North London went relatively badly for Labour (Hendon, Harrow East, Finchley and Golders Green)- though another, Chipping Barnet, went well. In 2 of those underperforming seats, the Tory MP was a Brexit fool, of the sort that you'd expect to get a real kicking in North London. Was the generational voting split as pronounced among Jews as non-Jews?

See, I'd be all over this stuff if I was in charge. Get academics in. Get some facts established. If the research basically says Corbyn is too pro-Palestinian, then politely write those people off. If it's more nuanced, see what can be done.

[Fussbudget]

I'm a bit baffled by Bernie's trolling style. Is he somehow under the impression that this board is full of millenials? (whatever that is)

[Snake Plissken]

Must be. I know I almost dropped my monocle.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Interesting post from Simon W-L about Labour and Sterling.

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2...-sterling.html

As I understand it, he says a run on Sterling is unlikely because the Bank of England is independent and would put up interest rates. That wouldn't be pain free though, and I am still worried about the fairly ambitious plans getting a bad reaction from markets Post-Brexit. As things stand, I think the markets would bite McDonnell's hand off if he could offer Soft or no Brexit in return for some socialism.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well done, Labour Friends of Palestine. You matched Katie Hopkins.

https://antisemitism.uk/labour-frien...inal-solution/

LFPME published posts on Facebook and Twitter on Monday about Labour’s support for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The caption read: “The Labour party’s two state solution will END the occupation – our solution will be the final solution. #FreePalestine #EndtheSeige [sic].”

Rhea Wolfson and all might have a fair bit of reassuring to do.

[Toby Gymshorts]

The..... Final..... Solution?

The person responsible for that needs their arse kicking from here to eternity.

[Duncan Gardner]

Is anybody looking properly at voting patterns?

Any sign of quiet Jewish support for Corbyn? Certainly, there's a prima facie case that 3 seats with substantial Jewish populations in North London went relatively badly for Labour (Hendon, Harrow East, Finchley and Golders Green)

Hackney N & Stoke Newington- Labour vote share 75%
Edmonton 72%
Hornsey & Wood Green 65%
Hampstead & Kilburn 59%
Hendon 46%

(others on request)

[ChrisJ]

Tend to stay out of this, not being a Labour supporter, but was prompted here by the stramash on the locked thread. That and having work to avoid.

Anyway, just wanted to add what a great post that is by Nef - I was struck by the same feeling of amused disbelief when the Mail, the BBC and the Independent - which is especially bad on this - took up cudgels on behalf of the oppressed, but couldn't express myself as coherently.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Hackney N & Stoke Newington- Labour vote share 75%
Edmonton 72%
Hornsey & Wood Green 65%
Hampstead & Kilburn 59%
Hendon 46%

(others on request)

Harrow East 46%
Finchley and Golders Green 43.8%

Tories won those plus Hendon. I think those are all Labour undeperformances, though Chipping Barnet wasn't- an excellent performance and narrow miss, in fact.

Isn't there something here?

Do we really think that stuff like Labour tweeting out "Final Solution" isn't coming across incredibly badly?

[Tubby Isaacs]

And I know that whichever nobody tweeted that out wasn't talking about exterminating Jews in a tweet about a two state solution. But a bit more needs to happen than a "whoops! we forgot to check!", no?

[Etienne]

Well, other than it wasn't "Labour" tweeting out that colossally stupid stuff then I'd agree. "Whoops" isn't good enough.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle is Labour, isn't it? Can you be in it without being a Labour member?

[Etienne]

Saying "Labour tweeted" implies it is official. I agree that it is more serious that it is a Labour member organisation.