Corb Blimey!

[Diable Rouge]

Corb Blimey!

Indeed, the deliberate besmirching of refugees as "migrants" is one of the more insidious attempts to rewrite political narratives, the aim being to turn the discussion towards competition for labour with the working classes, rather than concentrating on humanitarian concerns. I know it was a Freudian slip by BLT, but it demonstrates how successful the brainwashing has become.

[ad hoc]

Corb Blimey!

"besmirching"???? Holy crap. Where to begin?

Migrant is not a term of abuse you know DR.

[ad hoc]

Corb Blimey!

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

It's 2015. Do we really think voters' concerns are likely to be remotely the same in 2020?

Health is certainly one that will get more important.

I can't see immigration getting less important. The EU referendum is going to be wall to wall cuntery on a scale never seen before.

It will almost certainly be less impprtant relatively. That poll was taken at the height of the "refugee crisis" amid wall to wall media coverage.

[Diable Rouge]

Corb Blimey!

ad hoc wrote: "besmirching"???? Holy crap. Where to begin?

Migrant is not a term of abuse you know DR.

It is in the hands of UKIP, the Front National etc, portraying all immigrants as such - see also the Daily Express and Mail.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corb Blimey!

Ah see what you mean. Sorry.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

ad hoc wrote: It's 2015. Do we really think voters' concerns are likely to be remotely the same in 2020?

I think they'll be "remotely" the same, yeah. They may well be identical.

Top three were Immigration, the NHS and the economy. By way of contrast, in September 2010 the top three issues were the economy, immigration and unemployment.

In September 2005, the top three issues were Defence, Immigration and the NHS.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corb Blimey!

It's going to be very hard.

I wonder if Corbyn could take some sting out of it by having his economic wise men look at the effects of immigration.

You can't technocrat your way out of all political questions, but it might help.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

Doesn't seem a bad idea by any means, Tubby.

[ad hoc]

Corb Blimey!

Lucy Waterman wrote:

It's 2015. Do we really think voters' concerns are likely to be remotely the same in 2020?

I think they'll be "remotely" the same, yeah. They may well be identical.

Top three were Immigration, the NHS and the economy. By way of contrast, in September 2010 the top three issues were the economy, immigration and unemployment.

In September 2005, the top three issues were Defence, Immigration and the NHS.

OK, colour me surprised. Thanks for that.

[Bored Of Education]

Corb Blimey!

The reason that immigration is important to people is because the media tells them that it is important so because the media tell them that, then the politicians have to indulge in the same dog-whislery creating a vicious circle where the public think that immigration is important because the media tell them that immigration is important all the while telling the politicians that immigration is important and both telling the public that immigration is important.

If Corbyn were to break the mould and point out the affordable housing is actually the issue and that they are going to do something about it then, over 5 years, the message might start changing.

One thing that I heard which may seem counter-intuitive to say is that, to address the housing problem, we need to be building 200,000 homes a year. We are currently building about 100,000 homes a year. If all the refugees worldwide were to be rehoused by 'the West' - Europe, USA, Canada, Japan etc - our 'share' would mean that we would have to build another 5,000 a year on top of that. Obviously we aren't going to take our share of taking every refugee in so way less than 5000 homes would be needed. However, we still need 100,000 more houses a year without this. Housing>immigration.

Statistical truths that are clearer and better put than my clumsy attempt above are all over social media and occasionally on mainstream media but it needs politicians coming out and promoting them and challenging the received narrative. Already, Corbyn has made housing the first question of his first PMQs and included it in his first speech. I am hoping he will also be challenging the immigration agenda.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Corb Blimey!

Yes, building houses is a big issue and I think public money being spent on it would have widespread popular support. But there are snide counterarguments.

Build more houses, the anti-immigration people say, and you'll only attract more immigrants, because the cost of living will go down in a relatively prosperous economy. Also, state-funded building looks expensive in the short term even though the benefits probably outweigh that for most of us.

The problem is that it's so much easier for governments to keep their hands off the wheel and let the crisis slide than it would be to grasp the mixed-metaphorical nettle. Homeowners are legion, and many swing voters will likely be among their number. We all know that social housing is the missing piece, and that private enterprise won't provide it. The solution for the last 30 years has been to distract people from this fact.

[Bored Of Education]

Corb Blimey!

So we are in agreement then.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Corb Blimey!

We are, but what I mean is: it's easy to derail common sense in this area. It's a complex problem demanding a big cultural shift, and that's a difficult trick for any one politician to pull off.

[Lucy Waterman]

Corb Blimey!

I'm not so convinced that the anti-immigration argument will gain so much traction with housing - more important I reckon would be the public spending you mention, but also (I'm afraid to say) the angry reaction of existing homeowners fearing the depreciation of their assets. Grim.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corb Blimey!

I see the SNP are still pretending that they don't know what current spending is. McDonnell's backed "£30bn of Tory cuts" apparently.

They're very indignant he might have said something unfair about the massive political issue that is CalMac ferries though.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corb Blimey!

Lucy Waterman wrote: I'm not so convinced that the anti-immigration argument will gain so much traction with housing - more important I reckon would be the public spending you mention, but also (I'm afraid to say) the angry reaction of existing homeowners fearing the depreciation of their assets. Grim.

I don't think the latter is a factor really- most of them will know people who are struggling to buy.

A bigger problem will be getting places financed and built. Councils don't in general want to borrow for it, and come up against all sorts of objections when they try.

[Bored Of Education]

Corb Blimey!

Lucia Lanigan wrote: We are, but what I mean is: it's easy to derail common sense in this area. It's a complex problem demanding a big cultural shift, and that's a difficult trick for any one politician to pull off.

Well, he's got 5 years and I hope he isn't the one politician who thinks that housing is the primary problem. Indeed, if he has trouble taking other Labour mps with him on that, Labour are fucked. Making it the major issue to fight an election on is definitely harder but essential work

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Corb Blimey!

The Wing Commander is unimpressed at so-called "new politics".

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sniamd

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Corb Blimey!

Jeremy Corbyn's flat-refusal to reduce areas of human population to radioactive rubble under any circumstances will play badly to key voters in marginal constituencies who long for a bloodthirsty tyrant to usher in a new age of fear and hatred in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Tactical naive IMO.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Corb Blimey!

He's going to have to pull Trident out of Labour's cold, dead, Atlanticist hands.

[Guy Profumo]

Corb Blimey!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34399565

Which is it BBC?

Ruling out the use of Trident or ruling out the use of nuclear weapons.

Corbyn: I would not use Trident
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn rules out using Britain's nuclear weapons if he were prime minister.

Trident aren't [strike]are[/strike]our only nukes, surely?

- Haven't we got "little" (ha!) [strike]one[/strike] ones which are "battlefield" weapons rather than "Strategic" weaponry?

[E10 Rifle]

Corb Blimey!

To Lucy and others, what should Corbyn have said on immigration, by way of policy pledges?

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

Corb Blimey!

E10 Rifle wrote: To Lucy and others, what should Corbyn have said on immigration, by way of policy pledges?

I'd have liked to see amnesty for undocumented migrants already here, a promise to end detention of asylum seekers, removal of the "health tourism" laws, lifting restrictions on asylum seekers working.

[MsD]

Corb Blimey!

What about war criminals? Forget about what they might have done?

[Vulgarian Visigoth]

Corb Blimey!

Bored of Education wrote:

We are, but what I mean is: it's easy to derail common sense in this area. It's a complex problem demanding a big cultural shift, and that's a difficult trick for any one politician to pull off.

Well, he's got 5 years and I hope he isn't the one politician who thinks that housing is the primary problem. Indeed, if he has trouble taking other Labour mps with him on that, Labour are fucked. Making it the major issue to fight an election on is definitely harder but essential work

If it's a great cultural shock for Labour to admit to a housing problem in Britain they might as well fuck off or change their name and stop pretending altogether.