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    Corb Blimey!

    I have to say, I think the conversation has been largely extremely reasonable in tone on all sides.

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      Corb Blimey!

      Sniping aside, how is the current scenario best for right and left of the party?

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        Corb Blimey!

        Both sides can stop fighting with each other, park irreconcilables and move forwards as two distinct parties. Hopefully, with a non-aggression pact at the polls.

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          Corb Blimey!

          It's a dispute over the assets at this point really. I can't see the more centrist leaning party doing much to co-operate, since its hatred of the left is quite profound, and based on much more then 'electability' concerns. I genuinely think they'd rather not be in power than be in power in coalition with the labour left, whatever form it takes.

          The hatred of left for right also runs deep of course, but I think they'd be more up for a non-aggression pact out of pragmatism.

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            Corb Blimey!

            Doesn't the absence of candidate policy programme etc make it even worse for Corbyn? He lost 172-40.

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              Corb Blimey!

              cool pretend play vote, are there any plans for a real one?

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                Corb Blimey!

                school election

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                  Corb Blimey!

                  This whole mess just illustrates two things to me:

                  1 The PLP don't like the idea of the membership having control

                  2 Politicians are self serving careerists

                  I totally despair. The Conservatives have just wrecked the country by having a referendum that wasn't needed, which will have effects for decades to come and what do the PLP do? Expose the Tories for the sorry outfit they are? Expose the lies people have been fed? No, I know, lets have a public civil war. Cameron, Johnson et al must be laughing their heads off.

                  Unforgivable.

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                    Corb Blimey!

                    N est à? wrote: It's a dispute over the assets at this point really. I can't see the more centrist leaning party doing much to co-operate, since its hatred of the left is quite profound, and based on much more then 'electability' concerns. I genuinely think they'd rather not be in power than be in power in coalition with the labour left, whatever form it takes.

                    The hatred of left for right also runs deep of course, but I think they'd be more up for a non-aggression pact out of pragmatism.
                    Traditionally, one of the criticisms/strengths of the right/centre/soft-left/everyonewhoisntinmomentum is that they are about power and pragmatism rather than anything else.

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                      Corb Blimey!

                      Côte-a wrote: This whole mess just illustrates two things to me:

                      1 The PLP don't like the idea of the membership having control

                      2 Politicians are self serving careerists

                      I totally despair. The Conservatives have just wrecked the country by having a referendum that wasn't needed, which will have effects for decades to come and what do the PLP do? Expose the Tories for the sorry outfit they are? Expose the lies people have been fed? No, I know, lets have a public civil war. Cameron, Johnson et al must be laughing their heads off.

                      Unforgivable.
                      What would Corbyn have done if this hadn't happened? Had he planned that the 27 June would have been the first day in his entire era that he had any impact on the Tories at all, and this coup threw a spanner in those works? A shame if so.

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                        Corb Blimey!

                        He'll give up soon. He was knackered when he visited Colchester and Chelmsford in the same day.

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                          Corb Blimey!

                          Could always go on holiday again. I think he's on the Dubya employment contract.

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                            Corb Blimey!

                            Côte-a wrote: This whole mess just illustrates two things to me:

                            1 The PLP don't like the idea of the membership having control

                            2 Politicians are self serving careerists

                            I totally despair. The Conservatives have just wrecked the country by having a referendum that wasn't needed, which will have effects for decades to come and what do the PLP do? Expose the Tories for the sorry outfit they are? Expose the lies people have been fed? No, I know, lets have a public civil war. Cameron, Johnson et al must be laughing their heads off.

                            Unforgivable.
                            Corbyn was a supporter of a referendum too. He'd have presided over the same clusterfuck as Cameron, with less logic.

                            Comment


                              Corb Blimey!

                              My own CLP has seen a massive increase in meeting turnout and member involvement since last year, to the extent that bigger halls now have to be used for meetings. But we're in That London, so I accept may not be typical

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                                Corb Blimey!

                                Obviously, the mandate point is well made. But I haven't seen much "he's fucking brilliant, it's lunacy to get rid of him". That's telling, I think.

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                                  Corb Blimey!

                                  Le Fusil dEst Dix wrote: My own CLP has seen a massive increase in meeting turnout and member involvement since last year, to the extent that bigger halls now have to be used for meetings. But we're in That London, so I accept may not be typical
                                  Creasey said much?

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                                    Corb Blimey!

                                    No. But it's obvious which way she's going.

                                    Re involvement etc, it's worth pointing out that party activity had been dying on its arse for years before last year.

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                                      Corb Blimey!

                                      Creasy has one of the biggest labour majorities in the country, no? Can't have been that bad pre Corbyn.

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                                        Corb Blimey!

                                        A good piece on policy and stuff

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                                          Corb Blimey!

                                          Creasy has one of the biggest labour majorities in the country, no? Can't have been that bad pre Corbyn.
                                          Involvement in the party wasn't great really, but then she was always done this whole "parties aren't all that important, meetings are boring" schtick.

                                          She has a thumping majority, sure, and a decent sized personal vote but her swing last year was part of a general Labour swing in this part of London, which also saw John Cryer (Leyton) increase his majority, and Ilford North and Hornsey and Wood Green captured from the Tories.

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                                            Corb Blimey!

                                            CLP meetings are boring, to be fair.

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                                              Corb Blimey!

                                              And there is blame on all sides for that. So it's disingenuous for those who may be able to do something about it to whinge about it quite so much.

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                                                Corb Blimey!

                                                Lucy Waterman wrote: Traditionally, one of the criticisms/strengths of the right/centre/soft-left/everyonewhoisntinmomentum is that they are about power and pragmatism rather than anything else.
                                                Yes, but one really to make a distinction between the right of the Labour Party and the Progress wing; the latter haven't got an instinct for pragmatism; there really are things they will die in a ditch for, and a Labour Government isn't the same overarching goal as it was the right or old tribunite soft left.

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                                                  Corb Blimey!

                                                  I expect Creasey is expecting to hear all the arguments or something. Waiting for a Hilary Benn Syria speech.

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                                                    Corb Blimey!

                                                    Côte-a wrote: This whole mess just illustrates two things to me:

                                                    1 The PLP don't like the idea of the membership having control

                                                    2 Politicians are self serving careerists

                                                    I totally despair. The Conservatives have just wrecked the country by having a referendum that wasn't needed, which will have effects for decades to come and what do the PLP do? Expose the Tories for the sorry outfit they are? Expose the lies people have been fed? No, I know, lets have a public civil war. Cameron, Johnson et al must be laughing their heads off.

                                                    Unforgivable.
                                                    Agree.

                                                    Le Fusil dEst Dix: I thought Blairism killed off a bit of enthusiasm for activism at grass roots level, but that could just be my own experience and perception. I had a 2 meeting a week habit in the late 80s and early 90s, but had done nothing much since Blair came to power, other than a bit of running round at election time.

                                                    My neighbour has been a member for decades, also, and tells me he has never been to a branch meeting.

                                                    Has social media helped to kill it off?

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