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    Fairtrade miscellany

    When purchasing coffee and chocolate, the ever-increasing array of ethical branding can leave one bemused. The original Fairtrade scheme has been joined by the Rainforest Alliance, UTZ, and Kraft's in-house Make Coffee Happy. Still, are the latter three efforts merely imitative "greenwashing", or do they have limited merits in their own right?

    #2
    Fairtrade miscellany

    What's UZT?

    I know I could just google it, but can't be bothered.

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      #3
      Fairtrade miscellany

      I was going to write a fulsome response to your question providing a solid grounding in what the UTZ program does, but can't be bothered.

      Comment


        #4
        Fairtrade miscellany

        People in Britain drinking froffy coffee can salve their consciences all they like by buying it fairtrade or whatever, but fundamentally they're part of a consumer chain that (like tea growing in India) leads to third-world countries growing luxury crops instead of food, and container tankers travelling half way round the world to deliver it to them.

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          #5
          Fairtrade miscellany

          I get irritated by the frequent assumption that "Fair Trade", "Organic", "High Quality" and "Healthy" are synonyms, or at the very least strongly linked.

          But that's probably a different thread altogether.

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            #6
            Fairtrade miscellany

            Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: People in Britain drinking froffy coffee can salve their consciences all they like by buying it fairtrade or whatever, but fundamentally they're part of a consumer chain that (like tea growing in India) leads to third-world countries growing luxury crops instead of food, and container tankers travelling half way round the world to deliver it to them.
            I reckon that's bollocks, isn't it? Why shouldn't they grow luxury crops to make money and then spent it on food grown elsewhere? Should poor people just stick with subsistence farming and only eat cassava and roots?

            Look at those Apple programmers in Palo Alto. Why are they making a stupid luxury product that's shipped halfway around the world when they could be growing corn and millet and living off that?

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              #7
              Fairtrade miscellany

              Jongudmund wrote: What's UZT?

              I know I could just google it, but can't be bothered.
              Frankie Goes to Hollywood's record label, isn't it?

              Comment


                #8
                Fairtrade miscellany

                La Lanterne Rouge wrote:
                Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair Fan
                People in Britain drinking froffy coffee can salve their consciences all they like by buying it fairtrade or whatever, but fundamentally they're part of a consumer chain that (like tea growing in India) leads to third-world countries growing luxury crops instead of food, and container tankers travelling half way round the world to deliver it to them.
                I reckon that's bollocks, isn't it? Why shouldn't they grow luxury crops to make money and then spent it on food grown elsewhere? Should poor people just stick with subsistence farming and only eat cassava and roots?

                Look at those Apple programmers in Palo Alto. Why are they making a stupid luxury product that's shipped halfway around the world when they could be growing corn and millet and living off that?
                May I add to that critique that 'third world' is itself a pejorative/outdated/unhelpful term?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Fairtrade miscellany

                  Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: People in Britain drinking froffy coffee can salve their consciences all they like by buying it fairtrade or whatever, but fundamentally they're part of a consumer chain that (like tea growing in India) leads to third-world countries growing luxury crops instead of food, and container tankers travelling half way round the world to deliver it to them.
                  Oh I agree. We should grow our own coffee and tea and bananas rather than paying good money to anyone in [strike]the colonies[/strike] other countries.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Fairtrade miscellany

                    UTZ?



                    The UTZ Certified program provides the assurance of responsible coffee production and sourcing that modern consumers expect. It answers two crucial questions: where does the coffee come from and how was it produced? UTZ Certified coffee is traceable from producer to roaster to consumer. This guarantees that the products you buy have actually been grown and harvested in a responsible manner.

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                      #11
                      Fairtrade miscellany

                      UTZ Certified coffee is traceable from producer to roaster to consumer. This guarantees that the products you buy have actually been grown and harvested in a responsible manner.
                      If I was being really picky I'd point out that it does no such thing. Hopefully they've got a bit more to back that claim up on their website. I'll have a look later, if I can be bothered.

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                        #12
                        Fairtrade miscellany

                        That's from their website, which is rather thin on details.

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                          #13
                          Fairtrade miscellany

                          Sustainable development would mean countries growing a mix of cash crops (sold for a decent price) and sufficient food to nourish themselves, and it would require richer countries to pay more for their imported goods.

                          On the linked but separate question of climate change, I try to buy local/seasonal food rather than clock up "air miles", but as I've just flown a few thousand miles I am not one to preach about it. If you read about food (in)security and water shortages in Africa it's as depressing as hell.

                          People in the rich world need to change their habits, really. We've seen on the California thread, they aren't eager to do so.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Fairtrade miscellany

                            http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/jun/19/big-coffee-brands-can-support-their-farmers-heres-how

                            That's a really helpful article from The Guardian.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Fairtrade miscellany

                              Jongudmund wrote:

                              Oh I agree. We should grow our own coffee and tea and bananas rather than paying good money to anyone in the colonies other countries.
                              That's exactly the point though. It's because these places become entirely reliant on selling us coffee or cocoa or whatever that they remain, effectively, colonies. It's just now we don't need to exercise imperial power over them, we do it economically.

                              And if, one year, "fairtrade" or not, some futures broker in New York decides to buy coffee from El Salvador not Costa Rica, or their cash crop fails because of weather, they're stuffed.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Fairtrade miscellany

                                But that part of the world is where it's grown, so making the choice to buy fairly traded tea is surely a good thing if you are going to buy tea.

                                Or should we all be drinking nettle-water and turnip smoothies?

                                (You know Yorkshire Tea is just a brand, not the state of origin, right.)

                                EDIT: This is irrelevant: "And if, one year, "fairtrade" or not, some futures broker in New York decides to buy coffee from El Salvador not Costa Rica, or their cash crop fails because of weather, they're stuffed." Because a) coffee traded like that wouldn't be fair trade, and b) if the weather is that bad it would destroy their subsistence crop and they would be equally stuffed.

                                Is it the tory in you that would prefer poor people in other countries relying on Western aid hand-outs rather than trading as equal partners with the rest of the world?

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                                  #17
                                  Fairtrade miscellany

                                  Why would people need aid handouts to buy food, if their farms were growing it (not coffee)? That's hardly a "Tory" argument, in fact completely the opposite. It is, if anything, the worst kind of economic imperialism to dictate that all we want to buy off you is your coffee, or tea, or blood diamonds, so don't bother producing anything else.

                                  Don't get me wrong, economic specialism of production on a global scale could work, indeed work very well, as a model. But we don't have a great track record of implementing and sustaining it even within the UK, when you look at coal mining, slate mining, shipbuilding etc and the legacies that have been left on those areas when the demand for their products shifted elsewhere.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Fairtrade miscellany

                                    beak wrote: I was going to write a fulsome response to your question providing a solid grounding in what the UTZ program does, but can't be bothered.
                                    I've got half a mind to sort out whether it's UZT or UTZ. Only half, mind.

                                    edit - ah, scrolls down a bit, gets answer.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Fairtrade miscellany

                                      Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: Why would people need aid handouts to buy food, if their farms were growing it (not coffee)? That's hardly a "Tory" argument, in fact completely the opposite. It is, if anything, the worst kind of economic imperialism to dictate that all we want to buy off you is your coffee, or tea, or blood diamonds, so don't bother producing anything else.

                                      Don't get me wrong, economic specialism of production on a global scale could work, indeed work very well, as a model. But we don't have a great track record of implementing and sustaining it even within the UK, when you look at coal mining, slate mining, shipbuilding etc and the legacies that have been left on those areas when the demand for their products shifted elsewhere.
                                      Have I got you wrong? It sounded like you are against people producing something that can't easily be produced elsewhere and selling it to people who want it in places where they can't produce it.

                                      Yes, cash crops often don't work out as well as people hope, but that's where things like the fair trade premium and paying the price you agreed at the start of the contract come in. Fair trade is not futures speculating and cash crops.

                                      I'm not sure what your enlightened post-Imperial position is. I read it as instead of encouraging people to trade in a way that benefits everybody you'd prefer people in extreme poverty to scratch a living farming enough to feed themselves and their families and thus stay in that poverty state. Which is what would happen.

                                      That seems to me to be Imperialist. We won't trade with you as equals or let you make business decisions in the hope of changing your life prospects or allow you to maximise your economic benefits. You stay over there brown fella and grow rice.

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                                        #20
                                        Fairtrade miscellany

                                        Well, I think my view is somewhat to the middle of what you've depicted, and the one I've painted.

                                        I also just hate fucking "coffee houses" taking over every High Street in Britain, I must admit, so I am prejudiced in that respect.

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                                          #21
                                          Fairtrade miscellany

                                          I would agree with you 100% on that last point

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