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Storm in a tea cup: The weather thread

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    South Florida is pretty well pre-disastered, I think, because they've been hit over and over. But it will be underwater from sea level rise soon enough.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0817092825.htm

    Again, everyone should read New York 2140, it's a bit preachy, but it portrays what NYC will be like if/when the water around New York rises 50 ft (a remote, but not unrealistic possibility) and then gets hit by an epic hurricane. Robinson optimistically projects that will be the thing that finally tips the political balance in favor of nationalizing the big banks and turning money into a public resource, essentially. I wish I shared his optimism.

    The problem with not insuring these vulnerable areas is that instead of big houses and hotels being built there, it will be trailer parks, shitty apartments, and shanty towns and the poor who live there will take on an even higher proportion of the burden from these events. Of course, ideally, all of that land would be returned to nature or turned into parks. It's not a great disaster if a rec-league soccer pitch or softball field gets soggy (that's what happens around here). But realistically, its unlikely that that much land can be de-privatized (is that the word?) especially in places like Texas and Florida.

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      De-privatized = *re-nationalised (or nationalised, if it hadn't started that way).

      *I think.

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        Again, everyone should read New York 2140, it's a bit preachy, but it portrays what NYC will be like if/when the water around New York rises 50 ft (a remote, but not unrealistic possibility) and then gets hit by an epic hurricane. Robinson optimistically projects that will be the thing that finally tips the political balance in favor of nationalizing the big banks and turning money into a public resource, essentially. I wish I shared his optimism civilisation will still be around in 2140
        .

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          Originally posted by Gerontophile View Post
          De-privatized = *re-nationalised (or nationalised, if it hadn't started that way).

          *I think.
          But it doesn't have to be "nationalized" to make sense. It would be just as good if the municipality, state, or some other regional body took control over it as long as it was managed properly.

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            Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
            .
            Yes, that too. Although I think he's right about that. Civilization, overall, has proven to be extremely resilient. The Black Plague, among other massive disasters, didn't wipe it out. And now we have 7 billion people. Not to be crass, but we've got a lot to spare.

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              Nationalisation doesn't necessarily imply federal (or equivalent) government. It just means "state ownership/control", unless you're explicitly talking about, say, nationalising a regional government's debt. The London Underground was "renationalised" when TFL took over from the PPP contractors. China's SOEs are still "nationalised" industries even if they're owned by regional governments.

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                Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                Yes, that too. Although I think he's right about that. Civilization, overall, has proven to be extremely resilient. The Black Plague, among other massive disasters, didn't wipe it out. And now we have 7 billion people. Not to be crass, but we've got a lot to spare.
                Well, sure, but I think if we're still in a position to worry about whether big banks should be nationalised or not by 2140, then we'll be doing pretty well.

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                  I'd give the medieval folks better odds of keeping up civilization than our lot. That was back when ordinary people knew how to take care of themselves (because they had to). Plus there's billions more of us.

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                    This. We're the urbanised folk who probably fell hardest and fastest as their skills meant nothing when much of Northen Europe reverted to a rural economy Post Rome. I can't even tie proper knots, let alone fend for myself in the woods. The rednecks will inherit the earth, along with much of the worlds poorest poor poor (and farming even on subsistence level might not be worth a fuck, you might have to go full Mears in the desert/Savannah/forest/taiga/tundra of what's now the productive farmland that's currently producitive farmland.

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                      Errm, that piece that ursus posted is indeed very scary. Galveston National Laboratory, Bio-Safety Level 4 labs. Could be apocalyptic.

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                        It's just astonishing. The history and geography of Galveston make it pretty damned obvious, even to layman, that nothing that sensitive should be within several hundred miles of the place.

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                          I did wonder just how long it had been since the last catastrophic event when they established the lab.

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                            But it sounds like a fixable problem. Generators on a roof that need fuel. If we could take out Osama couldn't we manage that much?

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                              Assuming that is the only problem, yes, it is fixable given the full attention and resources of the US Government.

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                                So, it turns out that the laboratory was established in November 2008.

                                In other words, two months after Hurricane Ike severely damaged the hospital on the campus that houses the facility.

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                                  Meanwhile . . .

                                  A chemical plant in Crosby, Tex., was in critical condition Tuesday night after its refrigeration system and inundated backup power generators failed, raising the possibility that the volatile chemicals on the site would explode.

                                  Arkema, a maker of organic peroxides commonly used by the plastics and rubber industries, evacuated all personnel from the plant and was attempting to operate the facility remotely.

                                  The materials must be kept at low temperatures; otherwise they could combust.

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                                    I was about to post about the Arkema thing, which ties is with the rest of this thread. But I'm not sure where's better to build these chemical plants (if you're going to have them) - it makes sense to build them close to water, and close to the sources of petroleum products. The big problems here are - as Ursus mentioned upthread - Texas's bizarre zoning laws which mean that people can live next door to these places; and not enough Elfin Safety people making sure that all the fail-safes and back-up generators and so on are actually capable of dealing with disaster.

                                    The fact that the Galveston lab is less than a decade old but doesn't have good containment failsafes is just astounding. That kind of thing should be a holdover from the start of the Cold War, not from the 21st century.

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                                      That Post story on Arkema was published yesterday. Today the CEO has said that it will explode some time within the next 6 days. So from what I gather it went from an if to a when situation.

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                                        Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                        This. We're the urbanised folk who probably fell hardest and fastest as their skills meant nothing when much of Northen Europe reverted to a rural economy Post Rome. I can't even tie proper knots, let alone fend for myself in the woods. The rednecks will inherit the earth, along with much of the worlds poorest poor poor (and farming even on subsistence level might not be worth a fuck, you might have to go full Mears in the desert/Savannah/forest/taiga/tundra of what's now the productive farmland that's currently producitive farmland.
                                        Don't worry, Michael Caine will continue to operate NASA in secret.

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                                          There have been two explosions producing thick black smoke at Arkema, with the company warning that additional explosions are possible.

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                                            I've been really impressed by the NY Times's coverage of this. Everyone should check out their front page today (they've made all storm coverage available without subscription).

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                                              Port Arthur (pop. 54000) got fucked Tuesday night. They were expecting 8-10 inches of rain and got 20? That margin of error seems weird. The mayor posted that "Our whole city is underwater right now."

                                              edit- makes more sense to note the Jefferson County population, of course, which is a quarter million. I wonder how many stayed put, since they were hit after Houston.
                                              Last edited by Bruno; 31-08-2017, 11:25.

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                                                There is an interview with Senderos in the Tribune de Geneve about Harvey....apparently he now plays for a team in Houston....

                                                </light relief>

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                                                  Originally posted by Moonlight shadow View Post
                                                  There is an interview with Senderos in the Tribune de Geneve about Harvey....apparently he now plays for a team in Houston....

                                                  </light relief>
                                                  Dynamo opened BBVA Compass Stadium as a collection and storage center for hurricane relief.

                                                  video here

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                                                    More important things to worry about but how do Dynamo pronounce Dynamo? Like the E European clubs or with an English pronunciation?

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