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Bill Cosby will have his day in court

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    #76
    American juries

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      #77
      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
      According to the Grauniad, "he admitted in a deposition to using quaaludes in order to obtain sex, consensually, from young women."

      Which is surely an admission of assault, as quaaludes remove the ability to give consent, so why could the prosecution not persuade all 12 jurors or such obvious guilt?
      Did the jury get to see that deposition, though? We were discussing a year ago whether it would count as admissible evidence for this trial. If I understand the conversation between WOM and ua up thread correctly, then it probably was not.

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        #78
        No, it was admitted. And the jury explicitly asked for that testimony to be read back during its deliberations.

        I have not been following this at all, but my guess is that at least one of the jurors believed that there was "reasonable doubt" that the sex was consensual (note that they also asked for the definition of "reasonable doubt"to be read back).

        The concept of "reasonable doubt" is essential to US criminal law, but it also very often applied inconsistently by individual jurors, and there is very little that prosecutors or judges can do about that.

        It's also worth noting that the testimony in question was about Cosby's general behaviour around the period in question, not his actions in this specific case (which he claimed not to recall).
        Last edited by ursus arctos; 17-06-2017, 18:57.

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          #79
          Guilty.

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            #80
            Called the DA an asshole after the verdict. Lack of remorse will presumably not help him when he is sentenced. He will in all likelihood die in jail.

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              #81
              Good.

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                #82
                Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post
                Guilty.

                Bob Geldof, surely?

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                  #83
                  A few things that raise some issues about just how different a trial can go: the prosecution was able to call other women who accused Cosby as witnesses, whereas in the first trial there was only one.

                  Also, I know that the story is that a jury only can consider the evidence and arguments made in the courtroom when reaching their decision, but it's hard not to wonder if the #MeToo movement changed their consciousnesses and the way they thought about the arguments against him, and how much that had to do with the different verdict. Which is both a hopeful thing to think about, but I think is also more disturbing on a deeper level.

                  Also worth pointing out that the victim in this case went to the police in the mid 00s, and the DA decided not to take it to trial.

                  With the MeToo movement, I'm sure that Cosby's victims would have eventually come forward, but it's also depressing to think that Cosby only got media scrutiny after Hannibal Burress talked about Cosby being a rapist in 2014, and videos of that part of his performance went viral and the media started explaining what he was talking about.

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                    #84
                    I know that the story is that a jury only can consider the evidence and arguments made in the courtroom when reaching their decision, but it's hard not to wonder if the #MeToo movement changed their consciousnesses and the way they thought about the arguments against him, and how much that had to do with the different verdict. Which is both a hopeful thing to think about, but I think is also more disturbing on a deeper level.
                    I mean, given how juries are swayed by all sorts of cultural sentiments (and jury composition is manipulated to take advantage of those sentiments), this seems about the least disturbing application of that fact you can imagine.

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
                      Bob Geldof, surely?
                      Eh?

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
                        I mean, given how juries are swayed by all sorts of cultural sentiments (and jury composition is manipulated to take advantage of those sentiments), this seems about the least disturbing application of that fact you can imagine.
                        It's just depressing that it took a big huge cultural shift and activist movement to help achieve this verdict, but I guess that goes for plenty of things throughout history.

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                          #87
                          Change needs a catalyst. This, in the end, is good.

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                            #88
                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                            Called the DA an asshole after the verdict. Lack of remorse will presumably not help him when he is sentenced. He will in all likelihood die in jail.
                            Let's hope so but I'm sure his tactic will be appeal, appeal, appeal and then try to say he's too ill for jail.

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                              #89
                              That's my fear. "Mr Cosby is frail, blind, and no threat, etc etc" until he dies in his mansion of natural causes, with his enabler of 55 years by his side.

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
                                It's just depressing that it took a big huge cultural shift and activist movement to help achieve this verdict, but I guess that goes for plenty of things throughout history.
                                But we had the same cultural shift prior to a jury in Northern Ireland and judges in Spain coming to recent verdicts that didn't fit with #MeToo.
                                The decision to charge Cosby pre-dated the revelations about Weinstein. Similarly we've had a series of celebrities in Britain convicted of historical sexual abuse in recent years, even since it became clear a monster had got away with it. I'm dubious that there is any particular relation between the twitter hashtag/campaign and this court decision. Can't dismiss Burress, though. He was certainly involved in making this happen.

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                                  #91
                                  https://twitter.com/ap/status/1539378202061201410?s=21&t=pYwwTY5we46tneWTR1t-5A

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                                    #92
                                    I’d Playboy on the hook too? They should be.

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                                      #93
                                      I don't think they were sued.

                                      The amount of time thst has passed would complicate such a case considerably.

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                                        #94
                                        But if he did it and they know where he did it, how are they not liable?

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                                          #95
                                          I think this incident was mentioned briefly in the Playboy exposé series that ran on A&E recently. Certainly others were. Many/most of the parties (heh!) are deceased now, and I don't know how much the post-Hefner ownership of the organization could be held liable.

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                                            #96
                                            Those are the core issues.

                                            The degree and nature of the entity's responsibility is difficult to establish with precision and I believe the corporate entity has gone through several transformations.

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                                              #97
                                              $500,000 is rather paltry for statutory rape. People have received six times more for spilling coffee on themselves

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                                                #98
                                                No, they have not

                                                The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000, three times the compensatory amount, for a total of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the parties settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.
                                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebec...ts?wprov=sfti1
                                                Last edited by ursus arctos; 22-06-2022, 13:54.

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                                                  #99
                                                  You've accidentally pasted that twice.

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                                                    He's padding his billings...

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