They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

In what looks suspiciously like a Church of England ceremony. He'd have fucking hated that, he'd have been a Catholic.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

Sherlock's doing a reading! Channel 4 have upped the budget for this ....

[Eggchaser]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

Did any of the Ricardians make an attempt to jump in the grave and be buried with him like an Egyptian slave in a pyramid?

[tee rex]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

I caught a glimpse of the procession the other day, with people throwing flowers on the hearsey-thing as it passed by. Is England in mourning? Are the tabloids yelling "Show us you care, ma'am!"?

[Elvis Wilbury takes a turn]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

I thought this was a thread about Dick Nixon, but he's already dead and buried.

R3 was a very much maligned king, mostly by Tudor propaganda to support a very questionable claim to the throne by Henry VII. We did a thread on this a few years ago.

[Sam]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

I've heard nothing about this until this thread, but are you saying they've held a funeral service for Richard III which was on live telly? That's quite something.

[HORN]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

Speed-reading the Guardian I saw a headline "Britain mourns a monster because he was a king" and initially assumed it was a Clarkson tribute .

[ooh aah]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

Elvis Wilbury takes a turn wrote: I thought this was a thread about Dick Nixon, but he's already dead and buried.

R3 was a very much maligned king, mostly by Tudor propaganda to support a very questionable claim to the throne by Henry VII. We did a thread on this a few years ago.

He was the subject of an episode of Great Lives recently where they made this point. Unfortunately they completely over egged the pudding about Tudor propaganda, even trying to claim that Henry Tudor was responsible for the murder of the princes in the tower. Now this is so disingenuous, and so in direct contradiction of the known timeline of events, that I'm now deeply suspicious of the Ricardian's attempts at revisionism.

[Elvis Wilbury takes a turn]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

ooh aah wrote:
...even trying to claim that Henry Tudor was responsible for the murder of the princes in the tower. Now this is so disingenuous, and so in direct contradiction of the known timeline of events

It wouldn't have been Henry Tudor, it would have been his mother Margaret Beaufort, in league with Buckingham and Bishop Morton. The theory is not so outlandish. Henry's mother was extremely ambitious and manipulative, she had many sympathizers among the Lancastrians and disaffected Yorkists, not least her husband the powerful fence sitter Lord Stanley.

Buckingham had an even better claim to the throne than Henry, he was just as ambitious for the crown as Margaret but didn't have as many allies, so he betrayed Richard and threw in with the Beaufort/Tudor/Morton axis. The death of the princes was very convenient for Buckingham and the Tudors. It fit their purposes to a tee.

If Richard did indeed order the murders I would lay odds he was induced by Buckingham to do so. It was enough for him to disinherit the princes and take the crown without murdering them, but we'll never really know the truth of it.

[tuckwat]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

While the last recorded sighting of the princes in the tower was during Richard III short reign,I thought it was perfectly possible that they could have still been alive at the time of the battle of bosworth. Any remains that could have been the boys weren't found until 300 years later IIRC.

[Bizarre Löw Triangle]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

There were rumours he'd had the Princes murdered as early as 1483. Given those rumours damaged Richard III, if the princes were alive he would have had them seen in public.

Anyway, imagine being a Ricardian. As far as hobbies go, rehabilitating a half-millennium dead monarch is a bit strange.

I'm always reminded of this whenever this stuff comes about

[Elvis Wilbury takes a turn]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

The princes are dead by the end of summer 1483. At this time their fate is supposed to be a closely guarded secret. But in September of that year their mother, Elizabeth Woodville, agrees to a proposal that her eldest daughter marry Henry Tudor. The marriage will legitimize Henry's claim to the throne and enable the dowager queen to retain some influence at court (or so she believes). At any rate she has to be convinced that the princes are dead otherwise she'd have no reason to agree to such an arrangement. She too is a very ambitious woman and wants to stay in the game of power.

And how would she know that they're dead if it's all supposed to be a big secret? Answer: Via Richard's close confidante and soon-to-be-turncoat, the Duke of Buckingham who is secretly in league with the Beaufort/Tudor/Woodville alliance.

[Eggchaser]

They're burying Dirty Dick live on Channel 4

In 500 years they'll be arguing about who really killed old Boss Lannister on the bog.