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    #51
    It must be my architectural historian coming out, but it is incredibly relevant to someone of that bent and very difficult for me to see it (or any historical structure) the way you appear to do.

    It also has been featured in the French coverage.

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      #52
      It must be.

      What has? That not every brick, tile or beam dates from the medieval period? I daresay that some of the British media reports might refer to that but not at the top of the reports.

      The BBC says:

      Notre-Dame's famous spire, which collapsed during Monday's fire, dates back to the 12th Century.

      It underwent several changes in the building's history - including being dismantled during the French Revolution, and later rebuilt in the 1860s.
      The Guardian says:

      Desecrated during the French Revolution, by the early 19th century, the cathedral was was crumbling and half-ruined inside. The crowning of Napoleon as emperor followed by the success of Hugos novel focused attention on the building, prompting major restorations in the mid-19th century.
      Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 15-04-2019, 23:19.

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        #53
        Pompier is a great word that Im glad to learn.

        That really is a shame. Hope they pull through.

        Stainglassed windows can be remade. They can make a new biggest organ in France.* But a human life is a one-off.

        *Or maybe this is another moment for the Church to ask if giant organs and expensive buildings is WJWD.

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          #54
          ​​Officially sapeurs-pompiers, which always sounded even better better to me.

          They also have cool helmets.

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            #55
            That calendar makes it look like they expect extinguishing churches to be one of their tasks*. So don't show it to any conspiracy nutters.

            Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
            It must be my architectural historian coming out, but it is incredibly relevant to someone of that bent and very difficult for me to see it (or any historical structure) the way you appear to do.

            It also has been featured in the French coverage.
            And Sky News, for what it's worth. They, or rather an academic they were interviewing, said rebuilt in the 19th century but modeled after a previous spire not necessarily from the same location.

            * - actually, the local church to me went up just before Christmas. That one was originally reported as almost certainly arson, but now it seems not.
            Last edited by Janik; 15-04-2019, 23:55.

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              #56
              Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
              Or maybe this is another moment for the Church to ask if giant organs and expensive buildings is WJWD.
              Hmm. Doesn't seem likely for the Catholic Church, that.

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                #57
                The French State and the Catholic Church have been fighting over Notre Dame for a very long time.

                It is officially owned by the State, but the Church is supposed to pay for upkeep and repairs, and each side accuses the other of failing in its obligations.

                Well done Sky News. For the record, I was responding to the initial reports I saw before having to go to the office. FWIW, virtually every "restoration" Viollet le Duc did is controversial among architectural historians and preservationists.
                Last edited by ursus arctos; 16-04-2019, 00:06.

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                  #58
                  A radio report said there was complete silence by the thousands of onlookers along the Seine.

                  I understand why. It's nearly a thousand years old FFS. Nothing and I do mean nothing that's been produced in my lifetime will last that long, probably not a tenth as long, except possibly the extinction of our species. Sure wood and stone can be rebuilt, but that makes it essentially a replica. It's a loss, for all of us, whether we realise it or not.

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                    #59
                    I'm as anti-church as they come but have great respect for the art of organ building, the players and the repertory. It'd be a sad loss.

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                      #60
                      As someone who saw it every day when I was living in Paris, there is a very large part of me that just refuses to believe that this has happened.

                      After all, the German occupation force refused to execute Hitler's order to burn the city before they left.

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                        #61
                        This was taken from inside, looking up towards the section of the ceiling and roof that used to support the spire.

                        [URL]https://twitter.com/raphaellebacque/status/1117915983233081345?s=21[/URL]

                        The authorities have begun interviewing the people who were working on he roof in order to determine just what happened.

                        Numerous organisations are collecting funds for the restoration, which one expert expects to take "decades". The Pinault Family, one of the richest in France, has already pledged 100 million euro.

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                          #62
                          Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post

                          I just watched about 4 minutes of CNN's coverage, which was utterly assinine, filled with portentious sounding rhetorical questions that mean nothing and are full of bonkers non-sequitors "In this, the most holy of weeks for the catholic church, we have to ask 'How will the Vatican respond', just after the Pope was in Africa calling for peace".
                          Maybe not so much a non-sequitur than a coded way of implying that it was an act of Islamic terrorism.

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                            #63
                            [URL]https://twitter.com/gwnd77/status/1117896450757632000?s=21[/URL]

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                              #64
                              What are the chances of something slightly more interesting that an exact replica remake?

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                                #65
                                Can I be the first (and perhaps the only) to admit that until last night, if Id been asked, I would have been only 50% sure that Notre Dame cathedral was an actual thing and not just something out of the kids book.

                                There are a lot of areas where my knowledge isnt much above that of a contestant on Going for Gold.

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                                  #66
                                  Originally posted by Big Boobs and FIRE! View Post
                                  Can I be the first (and perhaps the only) to admit that until last night, if Id been asked, I would have been only 50% sure that Notre Dame cathedral was an actual thing and not just something out of the kids book.

                                  There are a lot of areas where my knowledge isnt much above that of a contestant on Going for Gold.
                                  The Victor Hugo novel? That is definitely not a kid's book. Unless the books you read as kids involved the heroine being hanged in public by sadistic priests.

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                                    #67
                                    A friend confessed that what he had up to last night thought of as Notre Dame is in fact that filth at Montmartre, Sacre Couer.
                                    Last edited by TonTon; 16-04-2019, 11:17.

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                                      #68
                                      I know the internet is wonderful in countless different ways (and I know I'm becoming Abe Simpson here), but God, part of me really misses Old News. When the insane takes were letters to the editor, if they were published at all. And you just watched the fire on telly and felt sad and innocently assumed that everybody else felt the same.

                                      You name it, it's been summoned up for the pivot (or "questions are raised, not accusing, just sayin"): from Islam to immigration, atheism to Health and Safety. Fuck these people and their empty existences.

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                                        #69
                                        The Crown of Thorns (Jesus' last hat) is safe though. Removed as a priority.

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                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                                          What are the chances of something slightly more interesting that an exact replica remake?
                                          Like one of those canopy-walk rope bridges between the bell towers, or a zipline running the length of the nave?

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                                            #71
                                            Already over $300 million in commitments to rebuild. Amazing how much idle money there is lying around for when a real crisis emerges.... Or perhaps it'll be renamed BNP Paribas Notre Dame or similar.

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                                              #72
                                              Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post

                                              The Victor Hugo novel? That is definitely not a kid's book. Unless the books you read as kids involved the heroine being hanged in public by sadistic priests.
                                              Can I be the first (and perhaps only) one to admit that until an hour ago, if Id been asked, would have been 100% sure that the Hunchback of Notre Dame was a kids book, and that Victor Hugo was the own brand fashion label of a Calais Hypermarket.



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                                                #73
                                                Good piece on the problems of restoring:

                                                http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...otre-dame.html

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                                                  #74
                                                  https://twitter.com/incunabula/status/1118068719593381888

                                                  The report linked there confirms that the damage to the organ is from water used to fight the fire rather than the fire itself (and suggests that the damage may be less than "severe")

                                                  At least some of the windows may need to be disassembled as part of their restoration.

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                                                    #75
                                                    The Arnault family, who are even richer than the Pinaults, have pledged 200 million euro.

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