Help me understand

[ad hoc]

Can someone here help me understand why some (fairly large) chunks of the left seem to have such a hard on for Putin/Russia? It completely baffles me. Is it really as simple as the idea that Russia stands against the USA? Is it a holdover from the cold war? What the fuck is it? Are there still tons of unreconstructed tankies around?

This is a genuine question. Obviously there are many political positions I don't agree with, but at least for the most part I understand where they come from. With this I am just completely clueless.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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He is pretty buff.

[Etienne]

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Yes, it's a mystery. MediaLens are an obvious example, a vital source but tedious in the extreme when they get on to Russia. I wonder whether it is just "my enemy's enemy is my friend".

[Patrick Thistle]

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ad hoc wrote: Can someone here help me understand why some (fairly large) chunks of the left seem to have such a hard on for Putin/Russia? It completely baffles me. Is it really as simple as the idea that Russia stands against the USA? Is it a holdover from the cold war? What the fuck is it? Are there still tons of unreconstructed tankies around?

This is a genuine question. Obviously there are many political positions I don't agree with, but at least for the most part I understand where they come from. With this I am just completely clueless.

Because a lot of ardent lefties are dickheads with poorly thought through opinions. Compare with any apologism for terrorism, suggestions of 'recognising' Islamic State, real feminists wear the burqa, industry is automatically A BAD THING etc etc

[N est à?]

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Building up to a nice auto-de-fé of straw men there Jon, just surprised you forgot 'all lefties are in favour of FGM'.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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People who campaign against capital punishment wearing Che Guevara T-shirts.

[Stumpy Pepys]

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Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: People who campaign against capital punishment wearing Che Guevara T-shirts.

I thought Che Guevara was like Purple Ronnie or Hello Kitty?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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[MsD]

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#socutecommieguy #want1

[Bored Of Education]

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I've lost track already - who are we criticising? It has enlarged to a whole load of people I have never met in my life as someone on the left.

[matt j]

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It's not something I've seen in the US to be honest. Maybe I'm not consuming the right 'content' to see it though.

Here it is the right who have the hard-on for Putin, particularly in comparison to that 'unmanly' Obama.

LGBT issues are right at the top of the the US left's focus at the moment, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Or, I'm out of the loop.

[Bored Of Education]

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I wonder what people who wore these t-shirts now feel.

[matt j]

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Easy: We feel very lucky to have him and not McCain or Romney.

[Patrick Thistle]

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Nesta Arantes do Nascimento wrote: Building up to a nice auto-de-fé of straw men there Jon, just surprised you forgot 'all lefties are in favour of FGM'.

Oh, did I miss one? The others I have read op ed pieces on or heard expressed. If they are straw men, then others have constructed them.

It's the simplistic dualism of everything that gets me. We can't possibly call all Palestinians terrorists, but we can talk about 'Israel' or 'Israelis' as if they are a homogenous group who all think and act the same. The sensible option is to acknowledge there are innocents and arseholes on both sides.

The dualism is expressed in the OP. 'America = bad therefore Putin = good'.

[Bored Of Education]

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matt j wrote: Easy: We feel very lucky to have him and not McCain or Romney.

It was more the wearing of a t-shirt of someone responsible for capital punishment that I was getting at.

[WOM]

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You thought Obama was going to do away with capital punishment in the US?

[Bored Of Education]

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No but, firstly, I wouldn't wear a t-shirt of Che nor Obama and, secondly, I thought he may get rid of the next human rights abuse that he actually said he would, Guantanamo.

[Incandenza]

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He wants to. Some in his party and everyone else in the other party don't.

[Bored Of Education]

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I thought that his signing of the Defense authorization bill and his hand wringing around that put paid to the notion that he was being stopped by others? Did he have no wiggle room about signing that (or the parts referring to its possible closure).

Answer as you would to a small child. I am no US policy wonk.

[E10 Rifle]

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Part of it comes from old Tankies' nostalgia for the Soviet Union and the idea of 'standing up to an expanding Nato', even though Putin is no communist, and as reactionary as they come.

He is, though, more of a menace to his own people than anyone else's in the main.

There's also that element of hostility towards the EU that many on the left have, not entirely without reason, and a sense that there's double standards at play. Which there are, on all sides, including the aforesaid lefties of whom ad hoc talks.

[E10 Rifle]

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I find MediaLens a bit bonkers to be honest.

[ursus arctos]

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Bored, are you suggesting that it would have been in the best interest of those of us who want Guantanamo closed for Obama to be impeached for failing to sign the defense authorization?

If the UK would just accept all of the prisoners, this could be over before the end of the month.

I'd say that E10 has gotten this basically right (though I would also add Russophiles of all sorts), and would agree that we really don't see it over here other than as part of the extreme fringe.

[E10 Rifle]

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It's always struck me that a 'plague on both your houses' position wouldn't be a bad starting point on this, not being an expert, like.

[Bored Of Education]

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ursus arctos wrote: Bored, are you suggesting that it would have been in the best interest of those of us who want Guantanamo closed for Obama to be impeached for failing to sign the defense authorization?

No.

[San Bernardhinault]

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I think E10 has it. It is a funny thing, though. In the US the admiration for Putin comes from the rational source of reactionary, authoritarian right-wingers.

From sources I've seen in the UK, where there is admiration of Putin it seems mostly to come from the left because he stands up to the West. It feels very much like a "my enemy's enemy" business, an automatic anti-American reaction without any thought to who Putin himself is, or what he does.

Of course, it should go without saying that most on the European left, and most on the US right, find Putin utterly detestable. But those are the two places where he seems to find the most support.