Why doesn't God want to be seen?

[Bored Of Education]

Why doesn't God want to be seen?

Yes, the "Virgin" thing was unnecessarily facetious to this element of the discussion.

We are arguing interpretations here but, while he may have not meant "as long as you hide the bruising", there will be that interpretation.

I am not saying that the Pope doesn't love children. I am not even saying that the strongest of physical punishers of kids don't love their children. That doesn't preclude them from doing very very wrong things that, regardless of the 'dignity' of not hitting them in the face, does physical and, yes, emotional harm. I am a reasonable person, as is TT, and I would call physical punishment of children abusive and brutalising. It couldn't be anything else. If it is unapologetic, even more so. If it is coldly pre-calculated, "go and get my belt", "You are going to get it when you get him", even more so.

As I say, I am not saying the the Pope nor physical punishers of children don't love children, I am saying that, in every single case of condoning or carrying out physical (and emotional it has to be pointed out) punishment, he and they are wrong. Indeed, carrying out the act and demonstrating remorse afterwards is perhaps less emotionally damaging that a pre-meditated unapologetic unrepentant punishment.

[G-Man]

Why doesn't God want to be seen?

We're going to go around circles now, because we've discussed corporal punishment a few pages ago, but is there a consensus in psychological research that indicates that all forms of physical punishments, even the mildest, is invariably emotionally damaging? Is a smack on the fingers more harmful than passive-aggressive punishment such as excluding a child from activity or withholding parental affection (never mind more sustained forms of emotional cruelty)? Is a parent who screams at a child preferable to one that gives the child a few smacks on the (clothed) backside? Are there conclusive studies that show that even mild forms of corporal punishment are abusive, or is it a question of instinct and perspective?

And I'm asking that not to score points (as I said, I raised my kid without hitting him) but because I know you are a pedagogue.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Why doesn't God want to be seen?

On the hitting thing: His experience of parenting -- as a recipient in Buenos Aires and as an observer in Argentina in a certain era -- probably is a lot different to ours. I don't know how Argentinians have conducted their disciplinary ways, but from the pope's words it seems that parental acts of punishment -- at least in the circles he knew -- were brutal and humiliating. So a departure from that, in the context of what he knows, is a good thing.

Of course we can argue about whether the "improvement" in disciplinary methods is good enough. But it also seems a little limiting to interpret what he says as if he is addressing only liberal Westerners who are used to Children's Rights Acts, and not also a vast audience that lives in environments where children are still brutalised.

Or still using words like "negrito".

[Bored Of Education]

Why doesn't God want to be seen?

G-Man wrote: We're going to go around circles now, because we've discussed corporal punishment a few pages ago, but is there a consensus in psychological research that indicates that all forms of physical punishments, even the mildest, is invariably emotionally damaging? Is a smack on the fingers more harmful than passive-aggressive punishment such as excluding a child from activity or withholding parental affection (never mind more sustained forms of emotional cruelty)? Is a parent who screams at a child preferable to one that gives the child a few smacks on the (clothed) backside? Are there conclusive studies that show that even mild forms of corporal punishment are abusive, or is it a question of instinct and perspective?

And I'm asking that not to score points (as I said, I raised my kid without hitting him) but because I know you are a pedagogue.

Basically, the answer to your question is yes and, if you want, here is ameta-studies showing such that I can't claim to have read completely thoroughly but covers what I have read in the past.

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/128/4/539/

I am assuming that you aren't putting me in the camp of an "either/or" attitude towards physical or emotional abuse. The latter can be harmful as the former.

[G-Man]

Why doesn't God want to be seen?

Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote:

On the hitting thing: His experience of parenting -- as a recipient in Buenos Aires and as an observer in Argentina in a certain era -- probably is a lot different to ours. I don't know how Argentinians have conducted their disciplinary ways, but from the pope's words it seems that parental acts of punishment -- at least in the circles he knew -- were brutal and humiliating. So a departure from that, in the context of what he knows, is a good thing.

Of course we can argue about whether the "improvement" in disciplinary methods is good enough. But it also seems a little limiting to interpret what he says as if he is addressing only liberal Westerners who are used to Children's Rights Acts, and not also a vast audience that lives in environments where children are still brutalised.

Or still using words like "negrito".

Oh fuck, no, please don't enter into Nefertiti territory.