The Pacific Northwest of the United States

[beak]

I avoided the So..., then formulation, but you all know the drill: me and the missus are going to take two weeks to go San Francisco to Seattle and back again, with stops in anywhere interesting in between (Portland is the obvious one that has jumped out), any suggestions are more than welcome.

I'm deliberately keeping that vague in order to attract as broad a range of suggestions as possible.

[Ginger Yellow]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Not US, but check out Vancouver/BC as well if you've got the time.

While you're in NorCal, go to Yosemite, obviously.

[San Bernardhinault]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

It depends on the time of year because places like Crater Lake don't open until late-ish in the year.

I love a road trip, and seeing the scenery of the US, so that would dictate my agenda if I was doing this. I'd also try and stay off the interstates as much as possible, although that would make your driving much slower. If you want to cover distance quickly and spend more time in cities, you probably wouldn't do what I'm about to suggest.

Assuming everything is open, I think I'd drive SF to Yosemite (one of the most spectacular places on earth), then over the Tioga Pass to Mono Lake. Then up the backside of the Sierra Nevada to Tahoe on 395, continuing on the Lassen Volcanic national park (which is fascinating, like a smaller Yellowstone). Then up past Mt Shasta, and inland to Crater Lake.

From there, I'd probably head to Bend, which is a great outdoors-and-beer town (although heading back to I-5 and stopping in Eugene isn't a terrible idea. Eugene has a great university town atmosphere, although I don't remember any great sights or sites).

If you're coming from Bend, head to Mount Hood, then down to the Columbia River Gorge, and drive the last hour or so into Portland along there.

North of Portland, I can't help you.

For the return journey, probably hug the coast. The 101 can be very winding and slow in places, but it's very scenic. I've only seen a few miles of the Oregon coast so don't know for sure what to suggest, but once you're in California, the area around Eureka is fascinating in a number of ways. The Redwood forest national park (and the Jedediah Smith redwood state park) are both stunning.

Eureka itself is more interesting for being a drug town. It's very odd and others here can describe it better than me.

The I'd finish my drive coming in through Healdsburg and the Sonoma wine country.

(And doing that, you'd finish your trip by driving over the Golden Gate, which would be a fairly fitting and awesome end to it).

But that trip is a lot of driving, so be warned!

[anton pulisov]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

I was in San Francisco last month. A fantastic city. I could easily spend a few weeks there just walking around and taking the place in.

If you need a cheapish hotel to stay for a couple of nights then I can recommend Hotel San Remo in the North Beach area. It's more of an upmarket hostel than a hotel. You get private rooms but have to share bathroom/toilet. But it is a very charming place and the rates are reasonable. Just make sure you get a room with a window... The North Beach neighbourhood is also a really, really nice place. I was jetlagged and walked around it at 7 am on a Saturday morning. At 8 I bought myself focaccia from Liguria Italian Bakey (recommended) and sat in Washington Square park in Little Italy and watched a large group of local elderly Chinese-Americans do Tai Chi to upbeat music. Only in America. I had dinner from the taqueria two doors down from San Remo. A massive burrito better than any restaurant in Europe for only $7.

Other areas are also worth a visit, such as the Castro (you can take the F tram there) and Mission districts. There's a biscuit shop in Castro called Hot Cookie which has very interesting looking biscuits for sale. And there's a diner called Orphan Andy's that has a dolphin themed drawing on the wall that had me pissing myself.

A general tip in California when you get outside San Francisco (which has good food) into the smaller cities (which have shite food) is to look out for the local independent taquerias run by a Mexican family. Often they are nothing more than roadside shacks. Excellent food for cheap prices. And the knowledge that you are supporting a local family instead of some crappy corporate franchise.

I also drove the Big Sur coast and that was absolutely stunning. But that's obviously in the wrong direction for you. I've heard that the coast north of San Francisco is great too. Inquire if there is a beach where the the elephant seals are hanging out. If you are lucky you will see the males fighting.

edit: And by all means avoid Fisherman's Wharf.

[Amor de Cosmos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

How are you getting about? Amtrak hugs the coast from Oakland to Portland which makes a wonderful ride. It moves slightly inland after that, but still worth doing.

In Seattle the EMP Museum can use up a day. And, if Wagner's your bag, Seattle Opera is one of the few in the world that regularly produces the full Ring Cycle (that's another three days taken care of right there.)

[S. aureus]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Are you married to the going all the way from San Francisco to Seattle and back idea? Because it's a fair distance (a very long day's drive each way if you go the fastest route), you've only got 2 weeks and there's a fair bit of stuff between (or near) the two.
Otherwise LLR's route seems good to me, just turn around at Portland. For the Northern section I like the Olympic Peninsula near Seattle, but don't know much about the area between Seattle and Portland.
Personally I don't rate any of the cities as all that. The landscape's amazing, but that might be a matter of taste and what you want to do/see.

[ursus arctos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Excellent points made by all so far.

To me, the two fundamental questions you face are:
1) do you really want to go both ways (it's a lot of travel), and 2) if you don't, do you prefer an inland, coastal or combination route.

LLR has already proposed what I would consider to be the ideal inland/combination route.

[Elvis Wilbury takes a turn]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

LLR's California recommendation is a good suggestion scenery-wise but trying to do all that and drive up to Seattle then back down along the coast is a lot of ground to cover in just two weeks. You'll be shocked at the distances and the time they take to drive in the US if you're not used to it. You'll be doing a LOT, and I mean a LOT of driving. Do you want a vacation or a trucker's holiday? That's a long long journey. You'll need to decide what is the most important to you.

Do you want to take in ALL the sights and be pressed for time or do you prefer a more leisurely pace, stopping off and staying awhile at places you like. Personally I prefer quality over quantity and allow the chance of serendipity instead of racing from one site to the next on a fixed, "must-do" itinerary. Whatever you decide you still might find you'll have to omit certain places from your itinerary. Just saying.

[Incandenza]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

In San Francisco, a trip to Crissy Field and Fort Point at the base of the Golden Gate Bridge are recommended. If you're going to be visiting a few national parks, I'd recommend buying the national parks passport. It doesn't offer any special benefits, but you can stamp it when you stop at the visitor center at the different parks, and it's a neat way to have a physical memento from your trip. Though maybe you have to be a special type like me, who is slightly obsessed with it.

In Marin County, Muir Woods is definitely worth a visit, but I'd recommend only going during the week. It's sadly become overcrowded on weekends. If you do go, then a visit to Muir Beach is recommended, it's just a little further down the road. The Pelican Inn is there, a British-style inn that has some good food and beer. If you skip Muir Woods, then I do recommend going to Rodeo Beach at Fort Cronkhite, which is a little similar to Muir Beach.

For food in SF, I recommend Philz Coffee and Dynamo Donuts. Philz has a few locations, Dynamo is in the Mission and now apparently has a cart by Crissy Field, but I didn't find it there when I was up there after Christmas.

[Elvis Wilbury takes a turn]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

A must-visit in San Francisco is the venerable City Lights Bookstore in North Beach. Beloved by poets, bohemians, beatniks and progressive politics wallahs.

[San Bernardhinault]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Absolutely Muir Woods, particularly if you don't make it to the Redwood Forest parks up on the northern California coast.

And, I agree with everyone who says my suggestion is a lot of travel. I hope I made that clear in my opening post.

My general road trip advice/rules of thumb for this kind of thing are

(a) Don't do three consecutive days of driving. If you just stop for a single night at one place, try to stay at least two nights at the next, otherwise you get bored of the car.

(b) Try not to spend more than 6 hours of "going somewhere" driving in any one day. You can spend hours tootling around looking at stuff, but 6 hours is the most of head-down driving before, again, you begin to get frustrated.

(c) Only book advance accommodation in places that are likely to get booked up. Frankly, the only place on my route where that might be a serious problem is Yosemite. Otherwise, you're better off winging it (reasonably priced -if, sometimes, shitty - hotels are fairly plentiful in smaller cities here) and if you either find something awesome you can stick around, or alternatively get bored of pretty volcanic mountains, you can go off and do something else instead.

[Amor de Cosmos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Yeah. The distance involved is why I was suggesting the train, at least one way.

[beak]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

cheers all, not had time to have a proper read through every response, but would clarify: its going to be next month, and we're going to be driving (maximising our gawping potential).

thanks again! will have a proper read this afternoon.

[ursus arctos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Don't drive both ways.

Drive one way and take the train or fly the other, or do an open jaw with SFO and Seattle as your arrival/departure points.

If you do take the train on the way back, be aware that it can often be several hours late, so don't cut it too close (it also leaves you on the "other" side of the Bay, but there is a bus).

[caja-dglh]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Ursus' observation on Amtrak trains is very accurate. For context, the train from Washington DC to Boston (via NYC) is regularly running over two hours late. And that is a train that has significant business interest. Given that, I can only imagine how late a Seattle - San Francisco train might run.

[ursus arctos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Here's the latest report on the Coast Starlight's on-time performance.

74% isn't bad by Amtrak standards; I've seen figures in the 20s.

A complication is that Amtrak schedules have LOTS of scheduled down time that is used to get trains back close to schedule (the primary cause of all this is that freight trains have priority on most Amtrak routes).

This site allows you to check the status of the train on any given day.

If you play with that, you will see that it can often be an hour or more late at intermediate stops despite an "on time" arrival at its terminus.

Yes, we are Amtrak geeks, us.

We are taking them to Vermont next month and to North Carolina in April.

[San Bernardhinault]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

OK. If you're driving next month, quite a lot of stuff inland, in the Sierras and Cascades, will be shut and hard to get to.

I think the Tioga pass over Yosemite is almost certain to be shut. The roads in Lassen Volcanic national park are shut. And some of the roads in Crater Lake are going to be shut.

That might dictate your route, particularly if you're only driving in one direction.

In which case you'd probably take the more coastal route through Sonoma and Healdsburg up to Eureka. The climate in Eureka, as far as I can tell, never changes with the seasons. It's 55-60F and cloudy all the time because of the coastal influence. Then up the Oregon coast to Portland.

If you do that, maybe spend a day in the Willamette valley near McMinnville wine tasting. Definitely taking the side trip to Yosemite from SF; and the side trip up the Columbia gorge from Portland (a good stop off is the Full Sail Brewing company in Hood River; their beer is decent, but the best thing is the restaurant in the brewery is perched so you get views across the river). Portland generally is a very beery town, with lots of good breweries and bars. And more food trucks than you can imagine. I've no idea if they're practical in February, but you'll find pods of food trucks all over the place. If you've seen Portlandia, it's not far from being a documentary rather than comedy.

[ursus arctos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

LLR is suggesting 101, which will be faster, but I would strongly consider taking 1 along the coast. You either do that straight from the Bridge, or you can take 101 through Jarin and then cut over to 1 via Two Rock Road, which connects Petlaluma and Bodega Bay. You then have series of possible stopping points including Jenner, Sea Ranch, Gualala and Mendocino. The next day you can continue north on 1 or cut back over to 101.

That said, the Oregon Coast is also quite beautiful, as is the Olympic Peninsula in Washington.

[Amor de Cosmos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

If you're interested Patti Smith's playing Portland on the 20th.

[San Bernardhinault]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Ursus has way more experience of that part of California than I do, and you should mostly listen to him.

(Although I still like Sonoma, and if you wanted to do that you could take 101 up to Healdsburg then cut in to the coast and drive 1 the rest of the way - I remember the road to the coast through Guerneville as being very pleasant).

[linus]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Yes the Anderson Valley along 101 is great, nowhere near as crowded as Sonoma. If you like wines and visiting wineries this is one stretch that will spoil you, along with the Willamette Valley which runs along a good stretch of highway 5 in Oregon.

I'd disagree with Antonio about the food in small towns up Northern CA, OR and WA, it's a great stretch for culinary tourism with great wineries, breweries, seafood, traditional American fare or granola foodie.

One quick practical recommendation on accommodations: try to time your trip, if you can, so that you stay in the big cities (SF, Seattle) during weekends, and avoid staying friday and saturday nights in popular country/resort towns. You will have no problem getting a 4 or 5 star hotel (some of which local landmarks) for about a third of retail rates through weekends using Priceline.

The Tioga Pass mentioned by LLR is closed in winter. Yosemite is a nice place, but bear in mind that winter conditions, if a storm hits, could make it a very dodgy detour, you'd have to deal with winter chains, snowed-in roads, deep powder. There are enough parks on the way near or along the coast that you could see, Redwood NP is a must, Olympia is great too and very accessible from Seattle.

The one-way train trip is not necessary, it would add hundreds of dollars to your budget in one-way dropoff penalty and one-way train fares for you and the Mrs. It's a beautiful drive, while the train is pretty slow and not all that reliable, nothing like European standards (or even northeastern US standards). It's only a 12hr drive from SF to Seattle, I would instead stay break it up and stay one night in a charming B&B halfway to SF in Oregon or northern CA.

[longeared]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

Go on the train and you also get to see the world's largest egg in Winlock, Washington.

As an illustrative example of the delays you can get on this Amtrak route, the time I did SF to Seattle the service was 40 minutes late at Emeryville (the northbound pick up for SF), 3 hours 10 down by Portland and then rolled into Seattle exactly 2 hours late.

[Flynnie]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

I'm trying to decide whether to drop a 3,000 word opus on San Francisco, but I think if beak wants to tell me what he's into, that would help.

The Pelican Inn is great, I wouldn't normally recommend a replica British pub to a Brit, but it's a replica of a really good British country pub (it could be in the Cotswolds or something) that's been around for 40 years and so has a lot of Marin local charm combined with it as well.

[ursus arctos]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

LLR's suggestion of the Russian River Route from 101 to the coast is indeed attractive and has the added benefit of taking you by Bohemian Grove. Linus' suggestion of the Anderson Valley also has merit, but the two cant be combined, because the Anderson Valley is North of the Russian River. If you do Anderson, the most direct route to the coast is 128, which will deposit you around Albion and miss most of the more appealing parts of the drive (to me, and I fully recognise that I am not at all impartial about that part of the world). Linus' timing suggestions are also very wise. Napa and Sonoma can be miserably crowded on weekends, though February is better.

I also like trains of all sorts, and generally dislike driving, particularly on holiday (though that part of 1 is my favourite drive in the US). If you are more like Linus, follow his advice
on the drive.

And listen to anything Flynnie has to say on the subject. The man knows his stuff.

[Heliotrope]

The Pacific Northwest of the United States

beak, could you take this trip in July and pretend to be me at a destination wedding in this neck of the woods? I'm trying to think of ways not to go.