Coming out of that London

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I'm sorry, I've almost certainly started threads like this before, but after two days in that London (where I lived quite happily in my twenties) my thoughts as a man in his forties, now living in a village in Lancashire where the streetlights go off at 8pm and you can hear the sparrows farting in the morning, remain, in no particular order:

1. Bloody hell, it's noisy.
2. Bloody hell, it's crowded.
3. Bloody hell, it's dirty.
4. Bloody hell, it's expensive.

And points 1 and 2, in particular, seem much more so every time I go there. I was on a tube from Pimlico to Euston earlier, at about 2pm, and it was crammed full. It wouldn't have been like that, at that time, ten years ago. It would have have been just you and the driver. Is that a consequence of congestion charging, or simply the packing out of people living there?

No, I'm sorry, Londoners, you can have your massive property price increases, because I simply can't bear to spend more than about 48 hours in the place, nowadays.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Coming out of that London

Writing as another long-term former-London resident, you're right.

But there's a buzz, a creativity and a well of endless possibilities that I miss.

[François dan un fez]

Coming out of that London

Yokels

[evilC]

Coming out of that London

You are correct about point 3, too. My top tip? Always clean your face (and head, if you wet-shave it) with cleansing lotion and cotton wool pads after you've visited the place. You'll be amazed at how much dirt your skin picks up in just a few hours there. (And the black snot when you blow you nose is well-known, of course.)

That was one of the biggest disappointments about the Olympics, for me: I thought that the place would at least get a decent Karcher-ing, even if it was never going to be renovated. But no - it remained as grubby and grimy to the eye as ever.

I still love the place, though. I could never live more than an hour's train ride away from a place that is a major music (read: gigs) hub. And London is, of course, one of the best for that.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Coming out of that London

The expensiveness of London in general is such a myth. There is one crucial, massive and cripplingly expensive thing in London, namely accommodation, whether owned or rented. Apart from that, London is, quality for quality, generally no more expensive than other places in the UK for most goods and services*.

In fact for restaurants, especially at the cheap and middle parts of the spectrum, I'd say London, certainly the less wanky parts, is significantly better value for money than most provincial towns.

* Edit: as a former corporate lawyer I should disclose that law firms' charging rates are much higher in London than in the provinces. On the other hand the quality of legal advice available on complex corporate and financial stuff is generally much higher, where provincial firms cover the specialisms at all.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Coming out of that London

EEG, it's a mind-blowing £4.30 a pint in the Pride of Pimlico (probably one of the shittiest, most run-down, dirtiest pubs in the UK, never mind London) where I watched the game last night. And the local Morrisons up the road charges £2 for a sandwich that would cost £1 up here. It IS more expensive, just on those terms.

Although you probably don't notice that poncing around in restaurants on your shareholders' expense account.

[evilC]

Coming out of that London

It's not a myth, but those tentacles of high-pricing reach all the way down here, some 40 miles out. Going to Sheffield is like going to some kind of real ale fairyland, where everything is 50%-75% of London prices.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Coming out of that London

Yeah, sure, pub drinks are more expensive in London, especially central London, than in the provinces. I did say "most" goods and services, not all.

But to balance that, the prices charged for that classic British staple, the "Indian" takeaway meal, are no higher in most parts of London than in most provincial locations.

And as for Turkish takeaway food (a treat widely available for those who live in Hackney or the eastern side of Islington), when I moved to Cambridge I found that it could be obtained in one or two outlets, but they charged far more in Cambridge for a much smaller quantity and above all hugely lower quality than they do in Stoke Newington.

And decent interesting bread - you can get it for say £2.50 a loaf in Stoke Newington, but for the same thing in Cambridge, generally more limited choice and less fresh, you'd be stiffed £4 if you were gullible enough, which we aren't so we bake our own now.

Fruit and veg also cheaper* in Stoke N grocers than in Cambridge.

*OK, "as cheap"

Cambridge is generally v expensive of course and possibly terrible VFM compared with many places, but I still think it shows London is far from the worst, except for housing costs and pub drinks.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Coming out of that London

And the dirt, yeah, the dirt. evilC's not wrong either. Any trip on the underground, where you touch poles, handrails etc, makes you feel like you want a surgical scrubbing down. In fact the first thing I did when I got home tonight was to jump straight in the shower.

Ironically, of course, in the old days it was northern cities that were derided as "dirty old towns". London owns that title now.

[hobbes]

Coming out of that London

You are correct about point 3, too. My top tip? Always clean your face (and head, if you wet-shave it) with cleansing lotion and cotton wool pads after you've visited the place. You'll be amazed at how much dirt your skin picks up in just a few hours there. (And the black snot when you blow you nose is well-known, of course.)

I never get this and I live here. Its far less grubby than even 30 years ago, a product of the ludicrous gentrification and the decimation of industry.
Admittedly I don't travel on the tube, but still.

[hobbes]

Coming out of that London

And of course, there's a dearth of mud and animal shit in London, too.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Coming out of that London

Am I right about the seemingly increasing overcrowding on the tube? As I said, I lived in London for 10 years in my twenties, variously commuting into and out of town from Highgate, East Finchley and Southgate, and it was always bad at "rush hour", but nowadays it just seems mental.

Maybe it's just because every time I go back to London I'm getting older and less tolerant to it, that could of course be the reason.

Edit: In fact, one thing that must correlate to that is that, yes, above ground, there IS a lot less traffic. I walked up Horseferry Road from my hotel to my office this morning at about 8-30 and there was hardly a car on the road. I could probably have skipped up the middle of it. Ten years ago that would have been gridlocked.

[Seven Saxon Kings]

Coming out of that London

Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: EEG, it's a mind-blowing £4.30 a pint in the Pride of Pimlico (probably one of the shittiest, most run-down, dirtiest pubs in the UK, never mind London) where I watched the game last night. And the local Morrisons up the road charges £2 for a sandwich that would cost £1 up here. It IS more expensive, just on those terms.

Although you probably don't notice that poncing around in restaurants on your shareholders' expense account.

Are still places in England where £4 a pint isn't the norm? If there are, none of them have teams in the fucking Ryman League.

[Janik]

Coming out of that London

EEG, I'm intrigued as to where you have been shopping in Cambridge. Have you tried Mill Road, including the bits the other side of the Railway bridge? It has the reputation for being i) cheap(er) and ii) possessed of interesting 'ethnic' (for want of a better word) supermarkets and restaurants.

[Janik]

Coming out of that London

Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: £4.30 a pint in the Pride of Pimlico (probably one of the shittiest, most run-down, dirtiest pubs in the UK, never mind London) where I watched the game last night. And the local Morrisons up the road charges £2 for a sandwich that would cost £1 up here.

These are, of course, manifestations of the cost of property in London.

[Cal Alamein]

Coming out of that London

Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: EEG, it's a mind-blowing £4.30 a pint in the Pride of Pimlico (probably one of the shittiest, most run-down, dirtiest pubs in the UK, never mind London) where I watched the game last night.

What's the current damage for pints in Sam Smith pubs? I was last in London in late 2009 and it seemed that a pint of OBB was still under £2.

[tuckwat]

Coming out of that London

Rome around 150 AD

1. Bloody hell, it's noisy.
2. Bloody hell, it's crowded.
3. Bloody hell, it's dirty.
4. Bloody hell, it's expensive.

[Max Payne]

Coming out of that London

Beer here in Melbourne is typically $10 a pint. For that you can get two bottles of cleanskin wine somewhere like Dan Murphy's. It's crazy.

Typical rent in Melbourne for 1 3 bedroom place 9km from the city centre : $1700 per month.

[Elvis Wilbury takes a turn]

Coming out of that London

London is very crowded and noisy. I like the place but when I'm in the UK I just go up to town for a day. I think it must be an age thing. I can only take LA for a day as well.I pay about twenty quid for a travel card, that's for train and tube and buses. Hotels are mega expensive. Things are generally about one and a half times more expensive in the UK than California. When I'm in London I usually pay about twenty quid or so for dinner, including a beer or glass of wine and maybe a small starter. I don't know how that compares to elsewhere in the UK or even in London generally. For me London is like a special treat; money just flies out of my wallet when I'm there.

[stereojet]

Coming out of that London

Even the swanky bars up here in Geordieville don't go far north of 3 quid a pint

[EIM]

Coming out of that London

I've not been to London for time, but when I do get back I feel a pang in my heart as I pull into Euston, as if I'm returning to my home. That lasts as long as it takes to get to the underground station, by which point I've remembered why I left and I'm silently fuming at the critical mass of breathing stupidity.

[sw2borshch]

Coming out of that London

My pre-match pint of bitter is £2.60, but there's cheaper places. Dearer ones too!

[Giggler]

Coming out of that London

La Racaille de Rochdale Road wrote: I've not been to London for time, but when I do get back I feel a pang in my heart as I pull into Euston, as if I'm returning to my home. That lasts as long as it takes to get to the underground station, by which point I've remembered why I left and I'm silently fuming at the critical mass of breathing stupidity.

I've never lived outside of the north west, so I don't feel that going to London is going home, but that same walk from arrival at Euston to tube platform was horrific on a recent stag do. There's no way I could ever imagine living there.

[EIM]

Coming out of that London

Last year when I went, I walked from Kings Cross to Euston to meet a mate and there was a bloke walking the same way with a massive fucking parrot perched on his head. Made it all worthwhile.

[sw2borshch]

Coming out of that London

Hmm, I shouldn't have had that last point.