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The UK Police Misconduct Thread

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    You don't have to do anything I guess. There wouldn't be an issue or any discussion if the banner's content were uncontroversial.

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      The police decided to tweet the picture as representative of the demonstrators. So they forced the question of who the guy was and why he was carrying that banner.

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        Sure. If you think snitch jacketing is a good plan, carry on. Some people don't, I thought I'd share some of that view. I would prefer to have shared a friend's tweets which I think lay it out better, but they are protected and I failed in my attempts to do that with an anonymised image.

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          it's better to make your peace with the fact that some people on protests will do things that can be used by the media to try to discredit the protest as a whole, like holding banners with slogans you don't like or smashing windows, or defending themselves when cops attack them.

          some people doing those things might be agent provocateurs, most won't be. part of the reason agent provocateurs and infiltration generally work as a tactic is they encourage paranoia (infiltrators know well to accuse the effectiveness of accusing others of being infiltrators).

          ultimately whether a protest is perceived to be respectable has very little bearing on whether or not the overall movement is successful - the war in iraq and brexit both happened despite large-scale peaceful protest; the poll tax was rescinded after riots (and a campaign of non-payment).

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            I'm not into "snitch jacketing". I'm also not on a protest. Maybe I should be. AFAIK you're not on a protest either.

            The police used that image in their propaganda. That feels relevant. Who is that guy and who does he represent are fair questions imo.

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              Agent provocateurs are used by the police to misrepresent or discredit protests, as well as trying to convince people to commit actions which are against the law , or framing people for actions carried out by the police

              thete seems to be fairly good evidence of police activity in this case.

              https://twitter.com/kartelbrown/status/1378620504832151553?s=21

              are you saying one should not comment on it?

              “the person carrying that banner seems to
              be frequently behind police lines- still best not mention it , they may well have their reasons. It’s not my position tojudge“
              Last edited by Nefertiti2; 04-04-2021, 17:24.

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                Quite a few posts on here point out that the police lie, can't be trusted, all of them are bastards etc. But we mustn't question the veracity of a protestor being used in police propaganda.

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                  https://twitter.com/London_AFA/status/1378746159024500739

                  It doesn't matter much what any one of us does, in the end. This stuff goes on, whether we join in or not. I think it's a very bad idea, and so do lots of people who are active in protest. I think it's useful to share that angle. So I do.
                  Last edited by TonTon; 04-04-2021, 17:37.

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                    The thing I wanted to share was in response to this

                    https://twitter.com/postingdad/status/1378481691900010498?s=20

                    So here it is anyway:

                    counterpoint, the uk shitpost left labelling (apparently erroneously) someone a cop in order to win an argument online with the police federation shows why they're all such fucking liabilities.

                    remember the guy in america who got convicted based on footage from someone who thought he was an agent provocateur?

                    if you're going to err, what's worse; endangering someone's safety by plastering a photo of them over the internet or incorrectly assuming that someone on your side had a slightly risque banner?

                    there are obviously circumstances where that balance shifts - e.g. if they're actively endangering people

                    agent provocateur discourse is useful to the state because it seeks to seperate liberal notions of peaceful protest from its more militant expressions
                    And then continuing, in response to another pic you may have seen, of someone with a cap on


                    idk but what's more likely here - a plain clothes cop wearing a (non-uniform) police hat for some reason or a protestor wearing a hat that says "fuck the police" or similar?

                    the protestor is also holding a banner with the word cop on it clear proof that they are in fact a cop i am very clever and not, in fact, doing the inadvertent bidding of the state.

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                      I'm liking this Shitpost Left label thing a lot.

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                        Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                        Quite a few posts on here point out that the police lie, can't be trusted, all of them are bastards etc. But we mustn't question the veracity of a protestor being used in police propaganda.
                        the point is people being publicly labelled undercover cops without solid proof can put them at risk of violence or indeed arrest - it's not about trusting the police it's about recognising the consequences of our own assumptions being wrong.

                        the evidence fwiw is extremely flimsy - anyone who's been involved in protests knows that there's rarely a single police line, they're often pretty fluid and it's easy to get caught on the wrong side particularly if your goal is to stay out of trouble (which it would be for most people on a demo).

                        "good protestor: bad protestor" is a dangerous game to play but "good protestor: undercover cop" is even more dangerous.
                        Last edited by Bizarre Löw Triangle; 04-04-2021, 18:52.

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                          I get the reasons not to try and out suspected plants because of the risk of getting it wrong. It looks like at a minimum the police propaganda machine worked in provoking the "shitpost left" regardless of the protestors intentions.

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                            I think naming people is probably counter productive ( though it would have been harder for spycops to have functioned in the way they did if people had shared photos )

                            https://twitter.com/wainwright_tom/status/1379050847175380996?s=21

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                              The spycops were all known and quite prominent people in the movements they infiltrated. If photos of them acting up at demos had been shared, loads of trustworthy connected people would have vouched for them.

                              (plain-clothes cops at demos is a different thing entirely - they're plain-clothes rather than undercover - though there is a fair amount of evidence to show they have previous for acting agent provocateurs).

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                                More cops being dangers to women
                                https://nation.cymru/news/police-off...offee-by-text/

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                                  After shocking images of police violence were shared on social media the Police Federation calls for strong action to prevent the sharing of such images on Social Media

                                  https://twitter.com/james_e_baldwin/status/1382111856685416449?s=21

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                                    All the Police Federation, or just the Met?

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                                      https://twitter.com/netpol/status/1382696441135648775?s=19

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                                        https://twitter.com/1917paul/status/1384518746056888321?s=20

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                                          UK police kill a man by kicking, beating and tasering him for six times longer than the recommended time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-56979521

                                          This story has really upset me. It sounds like Dalian Atkinson may have been experiencing a psychotic episode similar to what I went through in 2016. I didn't exactly believe I was the Messiah, but I believed I had achieved Buddhist enlightenment and had accessed secret knowledge that my mother thought I was the Messiah when I was born (basically the same delusion just with added layers).

                                          But because I am a small, white woman, I was treated with dignity and taken to hospital in an ambulance. If I was a black man, this could easily have been my fate. Anyone having mental health difficulties should be able to interact safely with the authorities but there is a massive discrepancy in how you're treated depending on what you look like.

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                                            Balderdasha there is a thread about Dalian on the football board but you might not want to read it.

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                                              Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                              Balderdasha there is a thread about Dalian on the football board but you might not want to read it.
                                              Thanks. I hadn't realised it happened so long ago and it's taken this long to get to trial. Ironically, the reason I didn't hear about it first time round was because I was still being treated in the mother and baby unit at the time.

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                                                So many trials take years to come to court now, because of government's deliberate and knowing policy.

                                                I dread to think how my little brother would have been treated over the years of mental health crises if he'd not been a well-educated middle class white guy.

                                                (I mean, it's been pretty shit, tbh, from a health perspective, but the cops are nice to him, as a rule)
                                                Last edited by TonTon; 04-05-2021, 18:26.

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                                                  I keep thinking about Smiley Culture who “stabbed himself to death “ during a police raid 10 years ago this year.

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                                                    https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1390298095771176961

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