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    Hong Kong protests

    Extremely brave and resourceful protestors on the streets of HK right now. I can't see this all ending well, though. Very much hope I get proved wrong on that.

    #2
    Hong Kong protests

    Depends how much China cares about world opinion. I hope that has an effect.

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      #3
      Hong Kong protests

      China doesn't give a shit about world opinion. (a) It doesn't need to, because it's powerful; and (b) Nobody else seems to care about world opinion these days, so why should the Chinese care.

      This all sounds a but depressing, but frankly if the lives of the protesters are reliant on China bowing to world opinion, then they are already fucked.

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        #4
        Hong Kong protests

        I'm afraid that I have to agree with ad hoc on that point.

        I do, however, tend to think that domestic Chinese elite opinion will cause the leadership to temper its response somewhat (as compared to Tiananmen Tactics). The economic and political situation within China since Tiananmen has been transformed, as has access to information (notwithstanding the significant controls still in place).

        That still is unlikely to be at all pleasant, however.

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          #5
          Hong Kong protests

          Of course China is powerful, but they have to trade, and a long of the business goes through HK.

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            #6
            Hong Kong protests

            MsD wrote: China is powerful, but they
            AAAAAAARGH

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              #7
              Hong Kong protests

              Oh, fuck off.

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                #8
                US throws Hong Kong under a bus.

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                  #9
                  I have been meaning to post something about this for several days, but it just seems too dark.

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                    #10
                    I don't get this. It must be linked with China planning on pretty much ending two systems but I don't see how this is leverage. Does china value the entrepot status of Hong Kong that much?

                    Was the Johnson offer of asylum more than just a throwaway?

                    Has Hong Kong ever been democratically run?

                    Edit: I too have been avoiding mentioning it as it's all terrible.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Levin View Post
                      Has Hong Kong ever been democratically run?
                      No. I've always been pissed off with the UK's hipocrisy in this case. I remember articles back in the seventies in Private Eye about the British government supressing all forms of HK pro-democracy protests.

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                        #12
                        The National Security Law has been introduced today. I don't think it's actually been published anywhere though.

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                          #13
                          Yes, the text has not been published, though my understanding is that it will eventually appear.

                          Joshua Wong has stepped down from the organisation he led, assuming that that position has now been criminalised.

                          This recent version of the Lawfare podcast is good on the broader context of the protests and the guest (Antony Depiran) is worth following on Twitter at @antd. He has a new book out that I've ordered.

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                            #14
                            https://twitter.com/antd/status/1277983505025138690

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                              #15
                              At least we can say one positive thing about the British government - Raab has just announced that any HK native with BNO status can live and work in the UK.

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                                #16
                                A couple of things there, firstly, one of the big banners at today's protest was people saying "we really fucking love Hong Kong", if people want to leave that's understandable but a good amount of Hong Konger's aren't going to want to leave except in extremis.

                                And also this

                                https://twitter.com/lausanhk/status/1271522794753282048

                                @lausanhk is a very good follow.

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                                  #17
                                  I'm amazed at the lack of international response to this. There are 300,000 Canadian citizens in Hong Kong (several who've been colleagues and friends of mine) and not a peep out of the Canadian government so far. It's as if no one gives a shit.

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                                    #18
                                    There is absolute terror of the economic power of the Chinese government, particularly given current conditions

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                                      #19
                                      To a degree I can understand that, particularly in Canada's case right now. And looking for humanitarian leadership from the US is like look for an igloo in the Congo. But China needs world markets doesn't it? Where are the EU, and other monied nations, never mind the UN? The silence is deafening.

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                                        #20
                                        The EU has been split, with Italy, for instance, being a member of the Belt and Road initiative and having very close trade ties. The same is true for much of the developing world, particularly Africa, which means that even General Assembly resolutions are DOA ( there is obviously the veto in the Security Council).

                                        The UK has actually done more than just about anyone.

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                                          #21
                                          I woke during the endorphin slump at 4:30am thinking about this, what next, Taiwan? Not likely yet I suppose, but it's so depressingly well calculated my head aches. Canada announced a halt to extraditions and military exports this morning, which is something I guess. Also immigration help will be coming in the days ahead. Meanwhile I can't help but think about the two Canadian guys held hostage for a year and a half in China over the Huawei extradition case. Their families must feel they're beyond hope now.

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                                            #22
                                            How the hell could Canada agree to extradition in the first place?

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                                              #23
                                              Because there's an extradition treaty in place with the US, and the Huawei case qualified I would suppose.

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                                                #24
                                                That's the official Canadian position

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