Turkey

[ad hoc]

Netanyahu tweeting about Turkey ethnic cleansing the Kurds. The appalling unselfaware racist mass murdering cunt

[E10 Rifle]

And Erdogan playing on racist sentiment within the EU, and within its member-state governments, by saying "Let me batter the Kurds or I unleash a load of refugees on you". Refugees again used as political chess pieces, and as punch-bags for racists and autocrats.

[Ginger Yellow]

Tusk:

We are of course all overwhelmed by the latest developments in Syria but let me start with the reason why I came here today. I came to demonstrate our full solidarity with you in the face of Turkey’s continued drilling activities in the waters off the coast of Cyprus. The European Council has strongly condemned these illegal actions. And in light of the new drilling activities by Turkey since the end of last week, I reconfirm that the EU stands united behind you. I call on Turkey to end these activities as they do not only undermine the recent efforts to resume Cyprus settlement talks but they also undermine good neighbourly relations between the EU as a whole and Turkey.
We also discussed the issue that is in the centre of attention of the whole world: the dramatic situation in Syria. Turkey's unilateral military operation in northern Syria is of grave concern and should stop. Turkey's security concerns should be addressed through political and diplomatic means; a military intervention will only make matters worse. Instead of creating stability, it will create even more instability in the whole region, exacerbate civilian suffering, cause further displacement and threaten progress achieved by the Global Coalition against Da'esh. The Kurdish forces that have been part of the Syrian Democratic Forces have been and are crucial in fighting Da’esh. For both sides of the Atlantic, abandoning them is not only a bad idea, as President Trump said, but raises many questions, both of strategic and moral nature.
Turkey must understand that our main concern is that their actions may lead to another humanitarian catastrophe, which would be unacceptable. Nor will we ever accept that refugees are weaponised and used to blackmail us. That is why I consider yesterday’s threats made by President Erdogan totally out of place.

[Kevin S]

EU also going to discuss the possibility of sanctions and/or suspending Turkey's Nato membership at the EU Council meeting next week. I hope that's not too late to have an effect on Erdogan.

In football-related stuff, PPV shared on Twitter the condemnation from the Swedish AC Milan supporters' group of Hakan Çalhanoğlu's tweet in support of Turkish action.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Trump has offered to mediate now.

What's the real deal going on with this? Is there any analysis on this?

[Antepli Ejderha]

EU also going to discuss the possibility of sanctions and/or suspending Turkey's Nato membership at the EU Council meeting next week. I hope that's not too late to have an effect on Erdogan.

In football-related stuff, PPV shared on Twitter the condemnation from the Swedish AC Milan supporters' group of Hakan Çalhanoğlu's tweet in support of Turkish action.

I'm pretty sure many Turks are backing this, the anti Kurdish sentiment has never really gone away. Living in an autocratic state with virtually no free media has contributed to this.

[Ginger Yellow]

Seems fairly clear Trump got played by Erdogan, and is maybe now having second thoughts after everyone and his dog said it was the worst idea ever, including his closest allies in Congress.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Seems fairly clear Trump got played by Erdogan, and is maybe now having second thoughts after everyone and his dog said it was the worst idea ever, including his closest allies in Congress.

Do you really think he was played?

Is this new territory going to be for those in Idlib or those in Turkey?

[ursus arctos]

He was absolutely played.

One of the best observations ever made of his approach is that he isn't playing four dimensional chess, he's trying to eat the pieces.

[ad hoc]

If I may introduce a small piece of another perspective here from the overwhelming "this is all about Turkey killing Kurds" tone of 100%of the press coverage, there genuinely does seem to be a large number of people (mostly not Kurdish) trapped in between Assad's army and the Turkish border in territory held by various groups (which could be characterised as anti Assad sunni Muslims of varying levels of fundamentalism) and if that territory falls to Assad then the resultant flood of refugees into Turkey could well see the 3 million already in the country double. In which circumstances you can kind of see a justification for Turkey trying to stop that happening. Now obviously Erdoğan will also use this excuse to kill a bunch of Kurds too because he's a cunt. But I'm concerned about the level of black and white Turkey is evil rhetoric that I see.

Now I'm currently in Turkey so take my words with a pinch of salt but I recommend reading Juan Cole on this as he seems to be a pretty reliable observer.

[Ginger Yellow]

. In which circumstances you can kind of see a justification for Turkey trying to stop that happening.

Well, yes, but it presumably wouldn't be happening if Erdogan hadn't persuaded Trump to pull out.

[Satchmo Distel]

Juan Cole's view is scathing:

https://www.juancole.com/2019/10/jou...n-turkeys.html

[Levin]

https://twitter.com/EvilRichard/status/1183383504605855746

[Antepli Ejderha]

Is it just this simple?
1. Turkey has wanted for years a buffer zone in Syria, it's now going to get a 900km long 30km wide one as a minimum.
2. This buffer zone will not contain any pro Kurdish forces.
3. Turkey can send back the 3.5 million refugees into this border area creating a friendly state on its border.
4. Russia has agreed to all of this but will get something in return.
5. Syria and its allies will be able to retake Idlib with anyone wanting to flee going to the Turkish controlled zone.
6. The Al Qaeda and Daesh fighters will either leave or die in that zone.
7. The western military presence in Syria will come to an end.

Very simplistic I know but quite transparent which is why I asked was Trump played.

The Kurds again forgot their own saying, " a Kurds only friend is the mountains. "

[ursus arctos]

I think that is basically it.

There will some deal to split up the natural resources, and it will also further isolate the Kurds in Turkey while providing plenty of pretexts for their further subjugation.

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1183430150110748673?s=21[/URL]

[ursus arctos]

Number of confirming reports from various locations along the same lines

[Nefertiti2]

[URL]https://twitter.com/lindseyhilsum/status/1183443972317945856?s=21[/URL]

[anton pulisov]

I think we can replace "luck of the Irish" with "luck of the Kurds"

[Antepli Ejderha]

Is this the deal between Turkey, Iran and Russia?

[Nefertiti2]

Who knows?

Feels another indignity that the only place we're discussing Kurdistan is in the Turkey thread
I didn't know that the Kurdish politician murdered yesterday had been encouraged to fund the party by the US

https://twitter.com/vvanwilgenburg/status/1183459542585282565?s=20

[Satchmo Distel]

Trump is an accomplice in her murder.

[Nefertiti2]

U.K. Still an Eu Member if it’s about backing Erdogan

[URL]https://twitter.com/damonwake/status/1183694147699593217?s=21[/URL]

[Ginger Yellow]

Don't want to jeopardise those lovely arms sales, presumably.

[Kevin S]

Don't want to jeopardise those lovely arms sales, presumably.