Turkey

[Sean of the Shed]

Turkey

TonTon wrote:

his is a hard post to write, but this is to the left or at least some of them. Firstly, we need to talk about the hesitance some of the left have had in celebrating the fact that a military coup was stopped in its tracks in Turkey. If this was latin america and the same happened my timeline would be full of revolutionary images...why isnt it ?
Secondly, why so squeamish about standing with the AKP and its supporters against the coup? There should be no conditions on this, this is basic and elemental. Next, please dont say you are with the Kurds but neither with Erdogan or the military - i will ask which kurds, those who voted AKP or just hot women who shoot muslims...lets be honest here. Next up, it is true there has been some very horrible violence meted out to conscripts caught up in this coup, horrible beatings, horrible attacks by coup opponents...but again ..failed coups are not pretty, they are anti democratic acts and they are violent - if you doubt that read about the execution of fascists in spain, or for that matter the red terror. This does not excuse this, and this goes for uncritical erdogan supporters as well...the defeat of the coup is to be celebrated. To truly build on this requires that leftists in Turkey and their allies push for change, for ...for example...a resumption of the kurdish peace talks, for a relaxation on the repression, for a freedom to assemble and debate...this goal is achievable. A carnival of retribution and a retreat into greater and greater repression will make this victory against the army a hollow victory, a poisoned chalice. And for those suggesting the whole thing was a false flag, a U.S. led coup or any such thing...please desist from the stupidity.

That's a grossly dismissive and derogatory view regarding the Kurds, and to believe that Erdogan will engage in any discussion regarding "resumption of the kurdish peace talks, for a relaxation on the repression, for a freedom to assemble and debate" is remarkably naive, I'd have thought.

It's grossly dismissive of leftists who fetishise "the Kurds", I think.

Are you saying the Turkish left should not agitate for "resumption of the kurdish peace talks, for a relaxation on the repression, for a freedom to assemble and debate" ?

Absolutely not. I just don't think Erdogan will engage with them, and given his previous treatment of political opposition groups I think they might be on delicate ground just raising the issue.

[anton pulisov]

Turkey

I would say that press freedom is a cornerstone of democracy. Turkey ranks 151 out of 180 in terms of press freedom, one place behind Tajikistan, where the president has been in power since 1992 and goes by the official title of Founder of Peace and National Unity, Leader of the Nation.

Here is Erdogan welcoming a head of state to his new multi-billion dollar presidential palace complex. He built it in protected land. The highest courts in the land forbade him to do so, but he did it anyway.



He is on the new marble staircase, surrounded by 16 warrior guards dressed in psuedo-warrior costumes representing various turkic tribes from history.

So is a the coup failing a good thing? Some on here are very sure. Maybe they know a lot about Turkish politics. Personally, I have no fucking clue. Time will tell. At the moment the whole coup vs Erdogan thing looks like a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

[Reed John]

Turkey

antoine polus wrote: I would say that press freedom is a cornerstone of democracy. Turkey ranks 151 out of 180 in terms of press freedom, one place behind Tajikistan, where the president has been in power since 1992 and goes by the official title of Founder of Peace and National Unity, Leader of the Nation.

Here is Erdogan welcoming a head of state to his new multi-billion dollar presidential palace complex. He built it in protected land. The highest courts in the land forbade him to do so, but he did it anyway.



He is on the new marble staircase, surrounded by 16 warrior guards dressed in psuedo-warrior costumes representing various turkic tribes from history.

So is a the coup failing a good thing? Some on here are very sure. Maybe they know a lot about Turkish politics. Personally, I have no fucking clue. Time will tell. At the moment the whole coup vs Erdogan thing looks like a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

That's my thought, although I know he's awful and I don't really know what the coup would have done. Generally, military rule isn't good, but maybe they would have pulled a George Washington and ceded power to a democracy. Even if Erdogan's party won again, maybe the potential for abuse of power could be curbed. I don't know.

[Bruno]

Turkey

That looks like a scene out of Monty Python.

[Bruno]

Turkey

On the coup failing, given how incompetently it seems to have been executed, I would think it was probably not going to lead to anything good had it temporarily succeeded.

[Reed John]

Turkey

Bruneau wrote: On the coup failing, given how incompetently it seems to have been executed, I would think it was probably not going to lead to anything good had it temporarily succeeded.

That's a good point.

[Bruno]

Turkey

But I'll immediately backtrack and say that a well-executed coup is pretty much ruthless by definition, so, not much good there either. Coups bad.

The George Washington example is a charming reminder in these troubled times, though. That there is how you create the greatest free country in the universe.

[NickSTFU]

Turkey

Defensive minded wrote: Turkish TV have reported that the normal soldiers were told it was a military drill. They didn't realise it was for real until it was too late.

Poor lads. Stooges for some cunt's game.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Turkey

Defensive minded wrote:

Political parties which among them receive the overwhelming majority of Turkish people's votes, including an overwhelming majority of Kurdish people's votes, took clear stands against the coup.

This is a bit naive. It would be suicidal for any party to claim they were for the coup.

It wouldn't be impossible to say nothing.

[ad hoc]

Turkey

Defensive minded wrote:

Political parties which among them receive the overwhelming majority of Turkish people's votes, including an overwhelming majority of Kurdish people's votes, took clear stands against the coup.

This is a bit naive. It would be suicidal for any party to claim they were for the coup.

I think this is the one thing that Erdogan will be pissed off about honestly. Amid the conflicting reports on Thursday night were suggestions that Erdogan had asked for asylum in Germany. Now, with the benefit of hindsight it is clear that this coup was actually very unthreatening and never likely to lead to an actual regime change. Indeed it seems likely that it could have been put down and suppressed in significantly less time than it was. Which immediately raises suspicions in those of us who have suspicions about this whole chain of events, that the reason for this was to see which figures in Turkey, seeing the apparent coup succeeding, would throw their lot in with the apparently incoming government, such that when Erdogan rode back into town triumphantly he could not only execute the plotters but anyone else who backed the wrong horse.

[NHH]

Turkey

It's very plausible to see how this works with the soldiers thinking it's an exercise, and the high-ups being fitted up, but it's about the micro-stuff of who order the troops out in the first place, and what planning went into it. If there were Erdogan agents provocateurs, surely they have names, and can be fingered (which is where the media control comes in, supressing this sort of gumshoe investigative reporting)

[anton pulisov]

Turkey

Dutch teletext reporting that 25 officers landed on the roof of Erdogan's holiday hotel on the night of the coup but he had already left.

Also reporting that two F-16 jets from the coup side intercepted Erdogan's plane on the way to Istanbul but didn't shoot it down.

He's going to be even more paranoid now.

[Reed John]

Turkey

The George Washington example is a charming reminder in these troubled times, though. That there is how you create the greatest free country in the universe.

Not sure about all that, but the point is that he probably could have pressed his advantage, rallied his officers and maybe become an American king or at least a more powerful executive than he was. He also set the precedent of only serving two terms.

Not many leaders these days are willing to leave power on the table like that.

[Bruno]

Turkey

I meant for that to sound slightly sarcastic.

[Patrick Thistle]

Turkey

6000 arrests today in Turkey. (Source: BBC News)

[Borracho]

Turkey

Le Dragon de Gaziantep wrote: Nearly 3,000 judges removed from their posts yesterday.

Haha. This coup must have been a real biggie.

[Borracho]

Turkey

Good post up there Antepli.

[Borracho]

Turkey

Apparently Erdogan was a journeyman footballer in Turkey's lower divisions in the late 1970s.

[axolotl]

Turkey

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-youtube-ban-full-transcript-leaked-syria-war-conversation-between-erdogan-officials-1442161

previously leaked "false flag" discussion from people high up in the Turkish hierarchy, related to Syrian conflict. on balance i don't really think this coup was a false flag, but worth looking into. a fairly weak attempt it must be noted. and clearly it's a bonanza for a certain tyrant

[Reed John]

Turkey

Borracho wrote:

Nearly 3,000 judges removed from their posts yesterday.

Haha. This coup must have been a real biggie.

I'm surprised Turkey has 3,000 judges. So that must be a huge chunk of the judiciary.

[Bruno]

Turkey

The population of Turkey is around 75 million. I just googled and there are ~3300 federal judges in the U.S. Then you got your state judges.

[Satchmo Distel]

Turkey

Does NATO have any leverage at all with Turkey, such as withdrawal of funds, or even expulsion? In theory there are supposed to be shared core values in the alliance.

[anton pulisov]

Turkey

9,000 police officers have been suspended.

[anton pulisov]

Turkey

The website of the Swedish newspaper Sydsvenskan is reporting that Cemil Candas, the mayor of one of the districts of Istanbu,has been shot in the head. Can't find it reported anywhere else.

[Reed John]

Turkey

Bruneau wrote: The population of Turkey is around 75 million. I just googled and there are ~3300 federal judges in the U.S. Then you got your state judges.

Well, I'll be damned.