A Well Regulated Militia . . .

[Tactical Genius]

I tend to use peoples' names if I know what they are and have established a rapport with them on the board. Especially so if, as in our case, we've met in real life and shared a drink. If you'd rather I don't use your real name I won't. Your call.

Have I every used your real name on here, there is a well known convention on OTF not to use people's real names unless they do so themselves. I have always refered to myself as the Tactical Genius or Malcolm X on here for a good reason.
It gives us the comfort and freedom to speak our minds on certain subjects which would probably see our employment opportunities seriously limited in the real world.

You are breaking convention sir.

What point did you think I was trying to make, incidentally?

Can you point to another recent thread with a poster known to you who you have used their real name?

But I thought that was exactly what happened. Didn't someone approach him during the spree and ask him why he was doing what he was doing and heard him reply "coz I'm so angry!" or something like that?

I am not disputing this version of events, I have not seen it myself. What I have seen is that he has been posting some far right stuff on social media including references to that book. I think he signed off on (i believe) instagram when he was on his way to or at the festival.

If, given his reading matter, he'd attacked a black church, or a mosque, or a minority social group or whatever, I'd assume that it was a politically-motivated attack. But in this instance there's enough evidence to suggest that wasn't his motivation.

And this is the important bit you are missing, because he is not attacking a a minority social group or whatever does not mean that his actions are not in support of White Supremacy.

In the 60's, 70's and 80's the United states actively fought against the spread of communism throughout the third world (overtly and covertly). Hwoever, what they first did in the 50's was to make sure any potential domestic dissent with what was to come was silenced (especially in the media). That was the point of the McCarthyite show trials.

Also a white man successfully bursting into a black church and unloading on the congregation in America in 2019 is virtually impossible. For a start, he will be seen coming a mile away, the church doors tend to be locked and I suspect there are a fair number of armed black people in the vicinity just in case. I assume this is increasingly the case for other minority gatherings like Mosques and Synagogues.
Gatherings of White people are softer targets, I have been to Gilroy before (I went shopping at the outlet store there on a trip to SF over a decade ago).

[Guy Profumo]

Have I every used your real name on here, there is a well known convention on OTF not to use people's real names unless they do so themselves. I have always refered to myself as the Tactical Genius or Malcolm X on here for a good reason.
It gives us the comfort and freedom to speak our minds on certain subjects which would probably see our employment opportunities seriously limited in the real world.

You are breaking convention sir.



Can you point to another recent thread with a poster known to you who you have used their real name?

Dunc.

But.

And this is important, only by DG himself, and then almost exclusively in the context of a council candidate and political activist.

[Tactical Genius]

Dunc.

But.

And this is important, only by DG himself, and then almost exclusively in the context of a council candidate and political activist.

Duncan Gardener is not his real name

[ursus arctos]

There are a couple of other examples, most of which are very long-standing posters who were here when real names were common, but it is a very important convention that really should be respected.

I also don't think that there is any real question that the guy was a white supremacist. I'm not one for monocausal theories, but given the voices he chose to amplify, the most likely cause of his "anger" was the fact that people who looked like him are increasingly being expected to share material wealth and power with people who don't.

[Guy Profumo]

Duncan Gardener is not his real name

Yes

That's the point I'm making.

[Tactical Genius]

There are a couple of other examples, most of which are very long-standing posters who were here when real names were common, but it is a very important convention that really should be respected.

I say this as a regular poster on OTF for 20 years (probably only outranked as a regular poster by AD Hoc, IMP and Paul S), even in the early days of OTF real names were never used by more than about 10% of all posters at any one time. By about 2002 when the board discussions went from threads about Steve Anthobus, the Kassam Stadium and Half Man Half Buscuit to stuff like Iraq/Afghanistan, the 911 fallout real names had all but dissapeard as it was used as an aggressive debating tactic to out people you didn't agree with, possibly in the hope they could be identified and fired by their employers.

I also don't think that there is any real question that the guy was a white supremacist. I'm not one for monocausal theories, but given the voices he chose to amplify, the most likely cause of his "anger" was the fact that people who looked like him are increasingly being expected to share material wealth and power with people who don't.

Precisely and not only that, its that too many people who look like him seem content with doing so, completely oblivious to the consequences (or the consequences as he sees it).

[Tactical Genius]

Yes

That's the point I'm making.

Which I am not getting.

[ursus arctos]

I think that what Guy is saying is that DG has on occasion linked to items related to his political career which identify him by his "official" name.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Have I every used your real name on here, there is a well known convention on OTF not to use people's real names unless they do so themselves. I have always refered to myself as the Tactical Genius or Malcolm X on here for a good reason.
It gives us the comfort and freedom to speak our minds on certain subjects which would probably see our employment opportunities seriously limited in the real world.

You are breaking convention sir.



Can you point to another recent thread with a poster known to you who you have used their real name?



I am not disputing this version of events, I have not seen it myself. What I have seen is that he has been posting some far right stuff on social media including references to that book. I think he signed off on (i believe) instagram when he was on his way to or at the festival.



And this is the important bit you are missing, because he is not attacking a a minority social group or whatever does not mean that his actions are not in support of White Supremacy.

In the 60's, 70's and 80's the United states actively fought against the spread of communism throughout the third world (overtly and covertly). Hwoever, what they first did in the 50's was to make sure any potential domestic dissent with what was to come was silenced (especially in the media). That was the point of the McCarthyite show trials.

Also a white man successfully bursting into a black church and unloading on the congregation in America in 2019 is virtually impossible. For a start, he will be seen coming a mile away, the church doors tend to be locked and I suspect there are a fair number of armed black people in the vicinity just in case. I assume this is increasingly the case for other minority gatherings like Mosques and Synagogues.
Gatherings of White people are softer targets, I have been to Gilroy before (I went shopping at the outlet store there on a trip to SF over a decade ago).

I must confess I had no idea I was breaking a convention. I just thought it seemed more friendly to address someone by their given name if you knew what it was. I've referred to you by your real name at least once or twice in the past, which I presume that you must have forgotten about and which you didn't object to at the time.

I refer to TAB by his real name all the time and I believe that I have occasionally referred to TonTon, Dunc, Amor, Ad Hoc, WOM, EIM and others by their's. I've also heard many other posters use fellow-posters real names, so it's a convention that's widely broken.

Some OTFers use their real names as their posting ones, of course

I'll avoid using you name in future though.

I think you're reading way too much into this event and ascribing a political and tactical sophistication to the gunman that I don't believe he possessed.

[Tactical Genius]

I think that what Guy is saying is that DG has on occasion linked to items related to his political career which identify him by his "official" name.

Ok, but my question was about NS refering to people by their real names recently.

[Nocturnal Submission]

Ok, but my question was about NS refering to people by their real names recently.

As one example, search OTF by TAB's real name. You'll find a number of examples of me, and others incidentally, using it.

[Tactical Genius]

I must confess I had no idea I was breaking a convention. I just thought it seemed more friendly to address someone by their given name if you knew what it was. I've referred to you by your real name at least once or twice in the past, which I presume that you must have forgotten about and which you didn't object to at the time.

I refer to TAB by his real name all the time and I believe that I have occasionally referred to TonTon, Dunc, Amor, Ad Hoc, WOM, EIM and others by their's. I've also heard many other posters use fellow-posters real names, so it's a convention that's widely broken.

Some OTFers use their real names as their posting ones,of course

I'll avoid using you name in future though.

If you have referred to me as my real name, I must have missed it.
I refrain from doing it to others and the only time i have done it recently was to reference a long gone poster who's name I had forgotton (he initially joined OTF using his real name and I could not recall any of this pen names he had taken up)

I think you're reading way too much into this event and ascribing a political and tactical sophistication to the gunman that I don't believe he possessed.

Maybe I am, what kind of evidence would convince you otherwise?

[Nocturnal Submission]

If you have referred to me as my real name, I must have missed it.
I refrain from doing it to others and the only time i have done it recently was to reference a long gone poster who's name I had forgotton (he initially joined OTF using his real name and I could not recall any of this pen names he had taken up)



Maybe I am, what kind of evidence would convince you otherwise?

As I said, I use posters real names to make the conversations seem a bit more personal, not for any other reason. But if you think that it could be a problem for you I'll refrain from using yours again in the future.

I'll also edit out the earlier reference. You'll need to do the same, of course.

I suppose either material written or taped by him suggesting the attack was political or a rationale as to why what he did would further WS, (he killed two kids and injured others, so it was hardly a targetted attack on affluent Silicon Valley opinion-forming liberals).

I mean, if as suggested upthread he was attacking a commercialised festival, I'd say that was a political act, but coming from a much different direction to that which you seem to be proposing.

[Satchmo Distel]

I'm not comfortable when TAB's real name is used, even if he has no objections. I don't like the precedent it sets for infringing privacy. Using the real name of a BAME poster - who has understable grounds to fear harassment and discrimination - is tone deaf and ought to be a yellow card in my view. I'm not accusing you, NS, of anything nasty - I just feel your perception of the forum's boundaries is hugely distorted here.

I say this as someone who has made etiquette and tonal errors on the forum in the past, but not in this category.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I'm not comfortable when TAB's real name is used, even if he has no objections. I don't like the precedent it sets for infringing privacy. Using the real name of a BAME poster - who has understable grounds to fear harassment and discrimination - is tone deaf and ought to be a yellow card in my view. I'm not accusing you, NS, of anything nasty - I just feel your perception of the forum's boundaries is hugely distorted here.

I say this as someone who has made etiquette and tonal errors on the forum in the past, but not in this category.

Blimey!

[Satchmo Distel]

No offence intended but it is how I feel.

[Nocturnal Submission]

No offence intended but it is how I feel.

Sure. But so many OTFers know each other in the real world, have become friends, visit each other when they're on holiday, PM and so on, that using their given names on here doesn't feel, to me anyway, like a great invasion of privacy. As I said, I can think of many that use their actual names as their OTF nom de plumes, and individuals often link to articles they've written, photos taken, books written even.

As for the specific bit about a BAME poster, well, that does seem rather offensively accusatory. I mean, TG and I have gone to a football game together and been to the pub for drinks. He's a real world acquaintance, if only a mild one.

Happy to hear what the rest of OTF thinks though. I've been thinking that I shouldn't spend so much time on here and this might be a good reason to take a break.

[Satchmo Distel]

NS, I wouldn't want you to take a break because I value your input, but you have a blind spot on this issue.

[WOM]

I disagree it's a blind spot. I'd say he just feels differently about the so-called necessity for anonymity / privacy. He's called me Ray in the past, and I'm fine with that. If you think someone calling you Mike, Bill or Dave on a message board is a big threat to your job / wife / credit rating, well...you're a nut.

Some people assume a familiarity that doesn't exist. NocSub is simply assuming one that, in fact, does.

[Guy Profumo]

For the record.

I believe NS to be wrong.

IMHO it's akin to outing someone who doesn't want to reveal themselves.

But on a scale of one to a hundred, only around seven at the very most.

[Tactical Genius]

I disagree it's a blind spot. I'd say he just feels differently about the so-called necessity for anonymity / privacy. He's called me Ray in the past, and I'm fine with that. If you think someone calling you Mike, Bill or Dave on a message board is a big threat to your job / wife / credit rating, well...you're a nut.

Some people assume a familiarity that doesn't exist. NocSub is simply assuming one that, in fact, does.

I really don't want this to be all about me, there are posters on here who for example are very critical of the actions of the Israeli government. Such criticism would see them labelled as anti-Semitic in many quarters.

I remember a poster on here who lost his job due to some comments he made on social media.

[Satchmo Distel]

I disagree it's a blind spot. I'd say he just feels differently about the so-called necessity for anonymity / privacy. He's called me Ray in the past, and I'm fine with that. If you think someone calling you Mike, Bill or Dave on a message board is a big threat to your job / wife / credit rating, well...you're a nut.

Some people assume a familiarity that doesn't exist. NocSub is simply assuming one that, in fact, does.

But it's not about assuming familiarity here but assuming the other person is OK with you revealing his first name to all the other readers.

However if I have assumed this to be a bigger deal than it really is, I apologize to NS for my overreacting to the issue and would not want it to be a reason for him to stop posting.

[WOM]

But it's not about assuming familiarity here but assuming the other person is OK with you revealing his first name to all the other readers.

Okay, you're right about that.

However if I have assumed this to be a bigger deal than it really is...

But more of this. I mean, we really do need to step back and assess the risk of someone learning that your name is Bill on a random thread on a random message board.

[WOM]

I really don't want this to be all about me, there are posters on here who for example are very critical of the actions of the Israeli government. Such criticism would see them labelled as anti-Semitic in many quarters.

Sure, and we all know their first names. In fact, they're regularly referred to by their first names and nobody believes them to be anti-Semites.

I remember a poster on here who lost his job due to some comments he made on social media.

Which seems like a whole other thing entirely.

[WOM]

I'm not suggesting that SD's name is Bill, by the way. And I'm not suggesting it's not, either.