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    Things that are older than you thought

    Rastafarianism - I thought it was founded no earlier than the 1950s but it was already around when Haile Selassie was crowned, whereupon it adopted his original name Ras Tafari.

    I recall assuming in the late 70s that the name Irish Republican Army only started in 1969. TV news gave that impression. OTOH the Provisional IRA was formed from a split within the movement in 1969 and the news sometimes (but not always) acknowledged this distinction. The conflation with the pre-1969 IRA was presumably contentious at the time (but also sometimes lazy or ignorant).
    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 08-12-2022, 05:37.

    #2
    The fax machine was invented in 1843.

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      #3
      Originally posted by 3 Colours Red View Post
      The fax machine was invented in 1843.
      ha, that is absolutely jaw-dropping but on closer investigation (wiki page on Fax) it does rather depend on how you define "fax machine". Interesting to see how the technology gradually developed. It seems that 1924 was the year of the first "fax" reproduction of a photograph, but it wasn't until the 1960s (still earlier than I would have guessed, to be fair) that the technology became commercially viable.

      Quite a short-lived technology in terms of office ubiquity really - too expensive and tricky before the 1980s, and obsolete due to the internet after the 1990s. Just a couple of decades as a common mode of document transfer.

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        #4
        Concrete

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          #5
          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
          Rastafarianism - I thought it was founded no earlier than the 1950s but it was already around when Haile Selassie was crowned, whereupon it adopted his original name Ras Tafari.

          I recall assuming in the late 70s that the name Irish Republican Army only started in 1969. TV news gave that impression. OTOH the Provisional IRA was formed from a split within the movement in 1969 and the news sometimes (but not always) acknowledged this distinction. The conflation with the pre-1969 IRA was presumably contentious at the time (but also sometimes lazy or ignorant).
          The connection between the 'RA of the 1920s and the mob around 50s-60s before the Provo/Stickies split, let's just say their claim to call themselves Sinn Fein/IRA is contentious as well.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View Post
            Quite a short-lived technology in terms of office ubiquity really - too expensive and tricky before the 1980s, and obsolete due to the internet after the 1990s. Just a couple of decades as a common mode of document transfer.
            Haha, I worked for a company in the 2000s that still used fax machines fairly regularly, certainly up until about 2010. It was ridiculous and I think it was mostly down to senior managers being stuck in their ways. I heard it only really started changing when clients were complaining they had to keep a fax machine just for our company to send them things! I used to go against policies which hadn't been updated for years saying to "send a fax" and send emails instead, but most of my colleagues seemed wary of bending any "rules", no matter how outdated or silly they were.

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              #7
              We were still using a fax machine nearly up to Covid. Our third party payroll service provider insisted on getting the payment instruction via fax. We had to keep a dedicated analogue line just to send that one fax per month, long after our main telephone system had gone onto VOIP.

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                #8
                We still have a fax machine at work, which is occasionally used if we need to send a prescription to Boots at short notice. Every now and then we get spam faxes, mostly from van leasing companies.

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                  #9
                  The medical profession in the US and the entire corporate and public administration sectors in Japan are still highly dependent on fax machines.

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                    #10
                    I think it is true that telephone switchboards - serving towns with dozens of numbers - were already operating before the electric light bulb came along. People were talking to each other on landline telephones by candlelight, much as they'll be doing in Britain in 2023.

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                      #11
                      I don't think I've even seen one for a good few years now. I thought they had finally been taken out of the NHS completely just recently.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                        The medical profession in the US ... still highly dependent on fax machines.
                        I think that will be over within five years.

                        Not sure about Japan, though.

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                          #13
                          We have software that automatically converts any fax sent to the Firm or an individual lawyer into an email attachment.

                          I don't recall receiving a single one this calendar year.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Sits View Post
                            Concrete
                            This reminds me that last week, when I took son to the pub for dinner while daughter was at brownies, he spent an hour bombarding me with questions (everything from the sublime to the ridiculous, "how big is infinite?" to "what would you do if you were locked in the house because someone had covered all the doors and windows with metal?")

                            In amongst these were the questions "when was concrete invented?" and "when were wheelchairs invented?"

                            It turns out that wheelchairs are pretty old too, with the earliest pictorial evidence of wheeled furniture dating from about the 5th and 6th century BCE.

                            At the end of the hour, a family who had been sitting next to us, whose toddler had been silent throughout said "my, what a curious mind." The only time he's not asking questions is when he's asleep.

                            Some times are less appropriate than others. He appeared in one of my video calls at 4pm today plaintively asking "when do I get some food?" like Oliver Twist.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                              I think it is true that telephone switchboards - serving towns with dozens of numbers - were already operating before the electric light bulb came along. People were talking to each other on landline telephones by candlelight, much as they'll be doing in Britain in 2023.
                              The telephone preceded the lightbulb by a scant three years, so this seems dubious. Also unlikely that phone lines would have been strung widely before electricity wires.

                              Side note: around 1960, my mother's job was to travel in rural Southern Ontario teaching farmers (mainly) how to use rotary dial phones instead of speaking to an operator.

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                                #16
                                Japan is trying, but the inertia is extreme.

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                                  #17
                                  Can't recount the details without googling, but there are apparently piers that are thousands of years old made of lava-based concrete which actually gets harder with exposure to salt water.


                                  Volcanic ash...not lava.... https://newatlas.com/roman-concrete-...eawater/50343/

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                    Japan is trying, but the inertia is extreme.
                                    That's what I've read.
                                    There's inertia in medicine too, but the economic incentives to adopt electronic health records and communication are overwhelming.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Southport Zeb View Post
                                      We still have a fax machine at work, which is occasionally used if we need to send a prescription to Boots at short notice. Every now and then we get spam faxes, mostly from van leasing companies.
                                      Ha, yes I forgot about spam faxes, when a quiet afternoon in the office would be enlivened by the machine sparking into life unexpectedly and startling everyone. Or when someone would dial it by mistake instead of the corporate phone number.

                                      On the other hand the eventual switch to Skype (and later Teams) and headsets put an end to phones ringing on empty desks, when if no one could be bothered getting up to answer it and the ringer persisted, it would get to the point where we'd say, if we answer that phone now the person on the other end is going to be really angry, so just leave it.

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                                        #20
                                        Back in the mid
                                        ​​​90s, during my only office job ever, which consisted mainly of lying to people about imaginary lorries coming to collect their goods for export, I had it drummed into me that anything any "customer" said to me had to be confirmed by fax (so that are arses were covered).

                                        I also had to use the minitel for hours on end to no avail.

                                        I said " only" office office job, but I actually tried to work for our lot in the office for about 9 months back in 2006. I used to get 100 emails a day which almost stopped me from doing any honest work. At least once a week some bastard tried to hold me to ransome for not responding to something he apparently sent me 2 months ago. God knows what that's like nowadays when you can send a sneaky message a 100 different ways.

                                        Im not sure whether to admire or despise anyone who tries to do nitty gritty, real world office jobs and actually manages to put up with it. I suppose some enjoy the game. The competition. The petty one-upmanship. I'm bloody glad I have spent my life looking out of a window wishing I was somewhere else.

                                        ​​​​​​I know there must be 1000s of decent office jobs, but I bet they are a huge minority.

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                                          #21
                                          Nah you're right, office jobs are shit.

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                                            #22
                                            You might not really need "office" in that sentence in most cases.

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                                              #23
                                              Oh for sure. Jobs are utterly dreadful things, let's be honest.

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                                                #24
                                                The first aeroplane to land on a ship (intentionally or otherwise) did so in January 1911; the first take-off from a ship was in November 1910. OK, in both cases the ship was at anchor, but for reference, The Wright Flyer's historic flight at Kitty Hawk was in December 1903, so only around 7 years prior to the basic proof of principle of aircraft carriers. The first dedicated carrier launched in September 1914 - the HMS Ark Royal (mk I)... though she only carried seaplanes. The first ship we would recognise as a modern carrier, the HMS Argus was a retrofit of a pre-existing ship. She launched as a carrier that could be used for both taking off and landing planes in December 1917. Again, 14 years only from any kind of powered flight being achieved at all. And, um, only a handful of months since the first successful landing on the deck of a ship at motion (not the Argus)... with the pilot who managed that being killed five days later when he tried it again! So a bit of a gamble by the Royal Navy there.

                                                As an example of how rapidly naval aviation was developed, just look at how substantial the ship is (after centuries of gradual development) compared to the ricketiness of the plane is this photo taken in 1912:-

                                                Last edited by Janik; 08-12-2022, 21:08.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Sits View Post
                                                  Concrete
                                                  Yup, most people get brought up short when they find out the Romans had concrete and used it extensively (I know I was). Its association with Le Corbusier and modern architecture is strong, but it wasn't anything like a new material when that movement latched on to it - it was just a more promoted one.

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