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    A little local revolutionary difficulty

    So, the internal tear-up in the SWP then?

    This is a tricky thread to start, but I've struggled to find an appropriate space in which to discuss it - neither Facebook nor Twitter nor partisan blogs seem the right place, and here's been a decent enough forum in the past for discussing the internal politics of the Labour party and other groups, even with people who hate them and think I'm wasting my time being a member.

    So I'd be interested in what TT (and any other members of Britain's biggest Trotskyite group) are making of the big internal rows going on there at the moment. Perhaps it's none of my business, and I don't want to stoke up any sectarian stramashery, but are there wider lessons to draw?

    I have always had plenty of misgivings about the SWP and they've got right on my tits at times, but I've also worked with plenty of decent people in their party too - in unions, trade councils, community campaigns etc - so I think it matters to those of us on the rest of the left who operate alongside them in common causes at times.

    The actual argument seems to revolve around a serious complaint against the conduct of a member of their central committee, and how it was dealt with by the leadership, which large parts of the membership seem deeply unhappy about. It seems then to have sparked quite deep debate - with inevitable grandiose invokations of Leninist tradition, and the heritage of 1917 Bolshevism, which seems absurdly over-stretched - about how parties such as theirs operate, how leaderships are called to account, which seem to me to resonate beyond a small Trot group to tendencies in parties, groups, unions etc in general.

    I doubt it's gonna fuck the wider left up, but it could have quite wide implications for the left's internal dynamic and how things are run in the future. If TT - and others - don't want to talk about it, fine, and I'll jack the thread in myself if it just ends up being trolled by "you lot are always calling each other splitters" stuff, but I'd be interested in activist thoughts on this one.

    So, er, the future of the left then...

    #2
    A little local revolutionary difficulty

    As I think I said to you elsewhere, I think it's your business as well as mine. Not that you have the same responsibility to get it sorted, but:

    1) It most definitely does and will affect the left more widely

    2) We have no interests separate from the class

    (with minor apologies for the SWP-speak)

    Comment


      #3
      A little local revolutionary difficulty

      So yeah, E10 is right, the immediate cause is how the party has dealt with allegations of sexual harassment and rape against a leading member.

      The International Socialism blog was set up by some members opposed to the leadership's line and carries a wealth of information and argumentation on the subject.

      (Thing is, the SWP isn't just Britain's tallest dwarf, it's Britain's only dwarf, in reality. Or would you make that "only remaining dwarf"?)

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        #4
        A little local revolutionary difficulty

        I have to say I have no great love for the SWP and I often resent the way they hijack causes for their own ends (and I would strongly disagree about it being "Britain's only dwarf"). I don't know much about the way the party is structured but this talk of an all poweful central committee and the bullying of members strikes me as very sinister. It doesn't look like a very democratic organisation.

        Comment


          #5
          A little local revolutionary difficulty

          Quite a good round up of articles here;

          Not knowing too much about them (they've never seemed interested in revealing themselves in my hood), but what a strange bunch.

          Comment


            #6
            A little local revolutionary difficulty

            So am I right in thinking that Comrades W and X have not gone to the Police with their accusations about Comrade Delta?

            If so presumably that would be due to the long-standing and well documented antipathy for the SWP that the Po-Po hold.(?)

            So if the disputes committee is made up largely of Comrade Delta's mates, (which from what I've just read appears to be the case) that leaves W & X possibly raped with nowhere to go. The irony is that the disputes committee treated these women in exactly the same way that the police have so often been critiqued for.

            Comment


              #7
              A little local revolutionary difficulty

              I hadn't heard about this until now, to be honest, but reading a bit about it my main feeling, as well as the anger at the treatment of potential rape victims, is great relief that these people are unlikely to ever achieve any sort of political power.

              I'm also very surprised indeed to discover that a guy I used to see very regularly at a now defunct poker club appears to be a committed revolutionary socialist and leading light of the SWP.

              Comment


                #8
                A little local revolutionary difficulty

                You know what when I read about this story a couple of weeks ago I came on here expecting a “So the SWP then” type thread. I was sort of surprised there wasn’t one and now I understand why.

                Anyway don’t worry about the ‘left’. According to a UNITE political officer I spoke to recently the unions are going to retake the Labour party.

                “Good luck with that” I said.

                Comment


                  #9
                  A little local revolutionary difficulty

                  I wouldn't say the SWP was the "only dwarf" - the ex-Millies of the Socialist Party are busy in patches, though undone by their embittered po-faced sectarianism these days; the CP retain a measure of influence within trade union bureacracies - but yeah, they're the biggest in a declining tradition.

                  And this has always been my cultural problem with Leninist organisations - the tendency towards top-down 'rally round your leaders' internal democracy; the 'my party line right or wrong' mantra; and an unwillingness or inability to think for oneself have often seemed characteristic of too many members of such organisations, particularly in my experience the SWP. (Add to that some dubious gender politics). So when issues like this emerge, a hell of a lot of poison seeps out.

                  And, of course, the Blairite Labour party (which contained its fair share of ex-Trots and Tankies who knew how to operate) operated like this a lot too, as do some other 'progressive' groups and even unions, so there's wider lessons here.

                  Which is why it seems both significant and heartening that the internal opposition to the leadership seems so strong in this case, and there's no doubt that were I a member, I'd be with TonTon and his fellow-thinkers. And they deserve support.

                  In the meantime, here's an open letter from union activists to the SWP leadership, which appears to include an OTF-er's name among its signatories, though it may not be the same one. Might sign it meself as it goes.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    A little local revolutionary difficulty

                    I posted this about the history of the far left in Quebec for TT a few months ago. It includes this passage about the maoist Parti communiste ouvriere, which seems awfully similar to what;s going on in the SWP:
                    In the PCO, the most explosive question involved the domination of Anglophones over the leadership. There was now not a single Francophone in the Political Bureau, something unheard-of in an organization that was 80% Francophone! However, the ordinary members were unaware of this, since the composition of the leadership was kept secret pursuant to a dubious "Leninism". Its disclosure produced a revolt in the PCO’s ranks, especially in the wake of the 1980 referendum campaign that was being strongly criticized within the group. But the members soon discovered that many things in addition to the national composition of the Political Bureau had been hidden from them. The most incredible internal scandals erupted day by day: a rape committed by a member of the leadership and covered up by it, the confinement of members who were under investigation by the PCO's security service (a veritable internal police force), the kidnapping of children of "investigated" members, etc.[Note] The crisis of confidence quickly assumed enormous dimensions, resulting in a massive haemorrhage of members who fled as fast as their legs could carry them. This crisis also opened the door to a political differentiation within the central leadership and between it and the Quebec regional leadership, which wanted to orient to an independentist position. The decision was then taken to dissolve the PCO as it existed and to open a debate on forming a new organization. But the whole situation had resulted in the emergence of a strong liquidationist current. The PCO ceased to function and its assets were wound up.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      A little local revolutionary difficulty

                      In the meantime, here's an open letter from union activists to the SWP leadership, which appears to include an OTF-er's name among its signatories, though it may not be the same one. Might sign it meself as it goes.
                      If you share the sentiments, please do sign it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A little local revolutionary difficulty

                        This piece on the IS blog comes pretty close to my views as to how the SWP ought to behave if a comrade brings a complaint of rape.

                        Comrades have asked for an example of what an alternative approach might look like. This is only one way in which the situation could have been dealt with, there are others but for starters:

                        1. Acknowledge that the woman came to the internal process because she trusted the Party – that is an honour and a responsibility it deserves to be treated as such.

                        2. Reassure her that the allegation is taken seriously, and that the organisation wants to provide support but be honest, the SWP is not in a position to investigate a rape. We are not criminal investigators, there may be other victims and an internal investigation could compromise a criminal investigation.

                        3. Explore the complainant’s expectations and what she envisages happening. It is fine to limit people's expectations; it helps no-one if someone who feels they have been badly treated has unrealistic expectations that are dashed at some point during the process designed to deal with their complaint.

                        4. Explain that the DC's remit is to investigate if someone has behaved in a way that is not in line with the SWP's purpose, aims and values. So the DC cannot investigate a rape and neither can they find someone “innocent” or “guilty” or “not proven” or “exonerate” them. The limits of their findings are to matters of conduct and whether allegations are founded or unfounded.

                        5. Because the allegation is so serious the person against whom the complaint is made should be placed on immediate suspension without prejudice.

                        6. The party will need to investigate if his behaviour at any time was at odds with the party's purpose, aims, and values and if so to what extent and what sanctions are appropriate. If the complainant decides to go to the police (and she should be encouraged and supported to in making her own decision about whether to do so) a police investigation will take precedent. The party’s investigation into conduct would not be able to begin until any police investigation is finished. If the complainant decides at any time during any proceeding to go to the police, the internal investigation will be halted until the police investigation is complete. The member whom the complaint is against will remain on suspension until the whole process is completed. The complainant should be reassured that this is a normal process and should not be made in any way to feel awkward or guilty about making her complaint, or about the steps the organisation takes as a result of receiving her complaint. She should be reassured that she did the right thing by coming forward.

                        7. The people dealing with the allegation need to be sure that the woman understands the differences between a criminal investigation and an internal one and the limitations of the latter. The woman should be supported to go to Rape Crisis or another sexual abuse agency so that she can have support; including an independent supporter to help her come to a decision about what she wants to do.

                        8. Outline the process in writing (including limitations, what the hearing will look like, what might be asked, who gets to see what; AND setting out the process for the selection of an independent panel to hear the complaint) and encourage the woman to discuss this with her support agency, take time, come back and ask questions etc. Discuss timings, find out when the woman would like an investigation to take place, perhaps encourage her to take a couple of weeks to think about her options with support but put reasonable limits on it – the organisation needs to deal with the situation.

                        9. The party should be happy to co-operate with the woman’s choice of support agency and should offer someone from the party to be an internal support for the woman. The woman should have a say in deciding who this might be.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          A little local revolutionary difficulty

                          (and I would strongly disagree about it being "Britain's only dwarf")
                          Really? That wasn't particularly meant as any kind of grandiosity on my part.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            A little local revolutionary difficulty

                            This debate about party control and "democratic deficits" being out in the open is highly unusual, but welcome. I hope it leads to a reappraissal of the SWP's command structure and an injection of discussion, but fear it will lead to the usual splits and splintering.

                            I've always been impressed that the discipline of the SWP has usually allowed it to punch well above its weight, but the top-down model ironically creates a dreaded "permanent faction" of the central committee, which stifles debate and innovation, and encourages cult-like behaviour that doesn't appeal to many beyond the faithful (most of which are temporary).

                            It was the same with all the other sects (I was involved with Militant from 77 to 85), as was the poring over the minutae of Revolutionary Soviet structures to look for guiding principles, well after it became useful to do so.

                            The leadership may claim Leninism isn't dead, and the internal opposition accuse it of Zinovievism, but both sides are just betraying their ongoing slavish devotion to historical ideals that are of little use to promoting socialism in our post-industrial world.

                            If the various sects could just forget arguing over the tracts that divide them for a minute and work together within a broader framework, they could actually be a useful political force with broader appeal. But I doubt it will happen outside of a crisis environment (eg Greece at the moment).

                            In the meantime, I'll rely more on UKUncut and the like to provide useful opposition to the neo-liberal consensus of the main parties.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              A little local revolutionary difficulty

                              and the internal opposition accuse it of Zinovievism
                              I don't think there really is such a thing.

                              I think the point to make is that referring to narrowly drawn particular conception of party organisation as "Leninism", as Callinicos does, is dishonest.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                Isn't the point that Leninist or not, either way its fucking awful, but the point that appeals to it being Leninist or whatever attest to the secular religosity which permeates groups where values and positions usually get accompanied by life and lifestyle changes.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                  NHH wrote: Isn't the point that Leninist or not, either way its fucking awful, but the point that appeals to it being Leninist or whatever attest to the secular religosity which permeates groups where values and positions usually get accompanied by life and lifestyle changes.
                                  That's very much what comes across to the outsider, I think: why are people discussing what is or isn't Leninist, as opposed to what is or isn't decent and just?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                    Because often things can be approved of as "Leninist" without being either decent or just.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                      Small(ish) outsider organisations are prone to being abused by charismatic sex men (as LL once described Art Garfunkel's character in a Nic Roeg film). We tend to hear about it in parties of the left and religious cults because those are the vulnerable organisations that exist in the UK. Those organisations should in turn recognise that risk and ensure that their procedures are rigorous when problems occur.

                                      Upthread it was mentioned that the police are no friends of the SWP. I would say vice versa too; it potentially helps an abuser knowing that the victim's instinctive reaction is to distrust the police (added to the deficiencies in policing of sexual offences in general).

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                        The thing is - from Gerry Healy through Galloway and Sheridan to Assange (if you see him on the left, as some do, though I don't particularly) and now this, hard-left organisations have previous, with varying degrees of seriousness, for misogyny and alpha-male personality cultism. It's got to stop. Which is why, the more I think about it and even though it's not a party I'm a member of or ever will be, I think TT and comrades are engaged in a very important fight here.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                          Wyatt Earp wrote:
                                          Originally posted by NHH
                                          Isn't the point that Leninist or not, either way its fucking awful, but the point that appeals to it being Leninist or whatever attest to the secular religosity which permeates groups where values and positions usually get accompanied by life and lifestyle changes.
                                          That's very much what comes across to the outsider, I think: why are people discussing what is or isn't Leninist, as opposed to what is or isn't decent and just?
                                          I can do both. And I do. Obviously for those who have a completely different idea of how society works and can be changed, the labels we use for some of our ideas aren't going to be important.

                                          "secular religiosity" is just one of those deliberate wind-up phrases that works. I don't actually follow your point though, NHH. Could you try it another way?

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                            If NHH's point is that some people on the left treat politics as a religion - and fall back on invoking sacred texts and individuals when they're in tricky arguments - then yes, I'm familiar with the tendency he describes. It's what that bloody awful Callinicos article the other day was doing.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                              I think it was a shockingly poor article on its own terms. To be honest, I found it hard to read.

                                              The argument isn't about Lenin and even Stallinicos didn't claim that.

                                              Or did he? I lost interest a few times...

                                              (S'cuse rattiness...)

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                                Well it was headlined "Is Leninism finished?" which obviously had a very explicit intention. But yeah, it veers all over the place and I can't be arsed to dig it out again.

                                                I can understand the rattiness by the way.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  A little local revolutionary difficulty

                                                  Well, "Leninism" isn't Lenin, although obviously it is to an extent imbued with the authority of the leader of the only victorious workers' revolution.

                                                  Comment

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