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    The prolonged survival of 78 rpm records and wind-up gramophones in India:

    In-fact, the 78 rpm record enjoyed an extended lifespan in the Indian market, co-existing with the new LP and EP formats at a time when most of the world was already considering it obsolete. It has been speculated that poor access to electricity in rural areas during the post-war era was a contributing factor to the format’s survival, as unlike the new vinyl records, the old shellac 78s could be played on wind-up gramophones without electricity.

    78 rpm record production continued until 1970, with the format consisting of a good 25% of all record sales in 1969. Today, the 78 rpm record and the wind-up gramophone enjoy an iconic status in Indian culture not found in any other part of the world.

    In addition to the old-fashioned wind-up gramophone record players, new 3 speed electronic models capable of playing all three formats were introduced by the mid ‘50s, even before local production of vinyl records began in 1958. This was facilitated by the use of “flip-over” dual stylus cartridges. 3 speed record players remained common well into the ‘70s, allowing 78s to co-exist with LPs and EPs.
    https://www.therevolverclub.com/blog...shellac-record

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      Some human beings (all of them women, due to the chromosome location of the relevant mutant genes) have tetrachromatic vision, seeing a whole additional dimension of colour that most people can't. It's much rarer than is sometime suggested - in order to be a genuine tetrachromat it's not sufficient merely to have 4 different kinds of cone (instead of the usual complement of 3), but the 4th one needs to have peak perception at the right kind of frequency, the cones need to be located in the right part of the retina, and, crucially, the extra cone type needs to be supported by a neural network which can make sense of the combination of 4 different colour-related signals. Even so, though, as of a couple of years ago, a researcher specialising in the topic estimated perhaps 40,000 to 50,000 genuine tetrachromats living in the UK, seeing colour variations where all the rest of us see a single colour blend only.
      Last edited by Evariste Euler Gauss; 19-04-2024, 15:07.

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        Way cool! I'd love to see what they see, if only for a few minutes. Have any of them been able to describe, or better yet portrayit, or are they even aware they are seeing something differently from everyone else?*

        *Each of us does of course, but not that dramatically.

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          I don't know about how much comment there's been by tetrachromats about their experience. But the rest of us can never access their world of vision I think, or even imagine it. Any attempt to portray it to us would be futile.

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            It's difficult to "see" colours you don't have words for so tetrachromats may be hindered by the vocabulary that was developed for those who can only see the "normal" range for their culture.

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              Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View Post
              Some human beings (all of them women, due to the chromosome location of the relevant mutant genes) have tetrachromatic vision, seeing a whole additional dimension of colour that most people can't. It's much rarer than is sometime suggested - in order to be a genuine tetrachromat it's not sufficient merely to have 4 different kinds of cone (instead of the usual complement of 3), but the 4th one needs to have peak perception at the right kind of frequency, the cones need to be located in the right part of the retina, and, crucially, the extra cone type needs to be supported by a neural network which can make sense of the combination of 4 different colour-related signals. Even so, though, as of a couple of years ago, a researcher specialising in the topic estimated perhaps 40,000 to 50,000 genuine tetrachromats living in the UK, seeing colour variations where all the rest of us see a single colour blend only.
              That's so cool.

              I remember reading one time that Russian people are able to differentiate different shades of blue more effectively. Their language makes a distinction between different types of blue, so the presumption is that this had made them more able to distinguish different shades.

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                Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View Post
                I don't know about how much comment there's been by tetrachromats about their experience. But the rest of us can never access their world of vision I think, or even imagine it. Any attempt to portray it to us would be futile.
                Hard to say. Everyone sees colours differently in any case. The average human can detect 16 to 20 million different colours, shades, tones. So, it's true, none of us can access anyone else's vision precisely. Even a single individual sees colours slightly differently with the left and right eye.

                Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View Post
                Any attempt to portray it to us would be futile.
                It wouldn't be precise, I'll grant, but also not necessarily futile. For example its very likely astigmatism accounted for the distortion of figures in El Greco's painting. But no one knew about astigmatism until the early 1800s, so it was impossible to make the connection. The same might be the case with tetrachromatic vision. If you put a group of people with average brush skills, including a known tetrachromat, in a room and ask them to paint an apple — for example — there very possibly would be a noticeable and consistent difference in what they produce.

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                  Originally posted by diggedy derek View Post
                  I remember reading one time that Russian people are able to differentiate different shades of blue more effectively. Their language makes a distinction between different types of blue, so the presumption is that this had made them more able to distinguish different shades.
                  It's not really any different to how many languages differentiate between red and pink.

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                    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                    It's difficult to "see" colours you don't have words for so tetrachromats may be hindered by the vocabulary that was developed for those who can only see the "normal" range for their culture.
                    This concept has been quite overblown in many light-reading reportings on the subject. People, broadly, do quite well at seeing and describing colors even if their native language doesn't have a specific word for it.

                    It's a bit like the old thing about Inuit peoples having a hundred different words for snow, which is arguable -- the thing is, you can get non-Inuit speakers who aren't that familiar with snow, and put them in the same sort of weather environment, and they'll be able to pick up the concepts even if they don't replicate the vocabulary exactly -- people seem to want to believe that we have far more lexical prescriptiveness affecting our semantic abilities than we actually do.

                    https://bcs.mit.edu/news/how-blue-an...ave-words-them
                    Last edited by scratchmonkey; 19-04-2024, 20:24.

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                      To add a really dull example, the Buenos Aires Subte has a line that's light/sky blue on the Subte map (Line A) and another that's dark blue (Line C). When I first moved here I thought of them both as 'blue lines', and if I couldn't remember which letter belonged to which line I'd occasionally refer to one or the other as such. After a mix-up one time I learnt that if you say 'la línea azul' a Spanish-speaker referring to the BA Subte map will understand you to mean Line C and the possibility that you might be referring to Line A won't even enter their head, because that would be 'la línea celeste' in Spanish. But that doesn't mean they're seeing some type of blue that I'm not capable of seeing. It just means that what English speakers think of as a shade of blue isn't called a shade of blue by Spanish speakers.

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                        Yeah. Languages vary enormously in chromatic descriptiveness. German goes to enormous lengths to be precise about colour, hue and tone. Chinese, OTOH, sticks pretty much with just the six primaries and secondaries (there may be a few more, Balders can correct me.) It doesn't mean the other 40,000 in a colour range can't be seen, it's just more like people said "bugger it what's the point." (In Mandarin probably.)
                        Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 20-04-2024, 01:24.

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                          Sam I didn’t find that dull and it made me wonder how you are with the Victoria and Piccadilly lines? I suppose the difference there is familiarity.

                          This chat has also reminded me that over time I’ve found myself describing a colour as green when the majority of others - including the family - call it blue. This is particularly the case with colours (I am seeing as) in the realm of the aquamarine or turquoise. I wonder if this is more that I am seeing the colour similarity, but have a different idea of where we leave green and move to blue, or I am actually seeing it greener.

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                            That's very common. We have no real idea what colour another person sees within a particular chromatic range. One of my favourite places in the world is The Rothko Chapel in Houston. I've visited on several occasions and am never less than awed. Sitting and watching an eight foot colour field canvas change from black to green, or another from black to mauve, while absolutely nothing else is altered. Not the lighting, not my sitting position, nor even my head movement. It's genuinely uncanny. I don't know if others are seeing quite the same colours as me or not, but it really doesn't matter.
                            Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 20-04-2024, 01:36.

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                              Sam I didn’t find that dull and it made me wonder how you are with the Victoria and Piccadilly lines? I suppose the difference there is familiarity
                              Or indeed Argentina's first and dark change kits

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                                According to Valerius Maximus, father of tragedy Aeschylus was killed when an eagle dropped a tortoise on his head after mistaking it for a rock. Definitely a tragedy if true.

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeschylus

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                                  Verging into WTF, but this entire thread about how Belgrade doesn't have sewage treatment, it just sticks it all into the Danube
                                  https://twitter.com/Andric1961/status/1781383310989525413?t=6co5Zl2jip4q0E3JUIIQYA&s=19

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                                    The difference in colour between the Danube and the Sava is striking

                                    https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8402...!1e3?entry=ttu

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                                      I wish I didn’t know that.

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                                        I did not know that. Is that really because of sewage and not just different vegetation and silt getting into the water like you see in South America- most famously the Rio Negro and Amazon.

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                                          I learned all about Alexander Cartwright. I only knew some of this.

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                                            I know several of the people who worked on that.

                                            Cartwright remains an active subject of research.

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                                              Millie Bobby Brown is Jon Bon Jovi's daughter-in-law

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                                                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                                "The next train to Notting Hill please?" (Tunes advert, mid-70s)
                                                Surely that was Nottingham (or 'Dottighub' as the ad put it)?

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                                                  Yes, I was trying to make a joke.

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                                                    James I of England (VI of Scotland) personally tortured women to extract "confessions" of witchcraft. It seems a bit hands-on for a monarch.

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