War in Ukraine

[Balderdasha]

Shamefully, it has only just occurred to me that Crimea is the same Crimea as in "the Crimean war" which I know nothing about, except for the stories of Florence Nightingale and Mary Seacole. I vaguely thought that Sharpe, which I used to love watching with my family in the 90s, might have been set in Crimea, but it turns out it was just filmed there. And is of course fictional, so wouldn't have given me any useful knowledge anyway.

It really would have been helpful if my history lessons had given me some sort of sweeping overview of European and world history. Would have been far more useful than memorising the wives of Henry VIII.

Off to read some Wikipedia pages.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

[anton pulisov]

Yes and it's also the subject of Justin Timberlake's "Crimean River".

[Satchmo Distel]

There's a crime 'ere.

[diggedy derek]

The Kerch bridge is, or was, enormous, and a gamechanger in terms of connecting two separate regions. It's kind of like the Channel Tunnel or something like that.

[Satchmo Distel]

Crimea is also coincidentally the farthest the German front line reached in 1942.

[diggedy derek]

It looks like the fire is out now. The railway section looks like it is still in one piece although who knows what damage that fire has done.

Parts of the road bridge are completely destroyed. From what I can gather, it had two road lanes in each direction. And I think maybe there's still one direction which remains safely above the water.

[Snake Plissken]

The Kerch bridge is, or was, enormous, and a gamechanger in terms of connecting two separate regions. It's kind of like the Channel Tunnel or something like that.

Putin opened it in person, too.

[ursus arctos]

Truck bomb exploded when next to the fuel train.

[Balderdasha]

So, the Crimean side of the bridge is clearly Ukrainian (even though annexed by Russia in 2014) and the Russian side of the bridge is clearly Russian, but what's the bridge? Built by Russians but depending how far along the bridge the explosion was i.e. whether in territorial waters previously acknowledged by the UN as belonging to Ukraine or Russia, this could potentially be the first attack by Ukraine in indisputably Russian territory.

I mean, not that I'd care. It's clearly fair game to target a bridge that another country has built towards land that they've illegally annexed from your own country. It just might be concerning whether Putin uses this to fuel the "we're at risk of being invaded" rhetoric.

[ursus arctos]

He passed that some time ago, with the annexations being an escalation

Given that it was being used to supply the forces in Crimea it is a perfectly valid target under international law

[ursus arctos]

https://twitter.com/elizrael/status/1578675708876193793?s=61&t=b-M0oEMRgxe2r0BP9BbQow

[Ginger Yellow]

this could potentially be the first attack by Ukraine in indisputably Russian territory.

Unless all those ammo and fuel depot explosions were accidents, not really. And they've been assassinating people, per US intel.

[diggedy derek]

Apparently the train services across the bridge might be starting again [checks notes] tonight. Might want to skip that trip to Kherson.

[steveeeeeeeee]

It looks like the truck was carrying the explosives, therefore this would have had to have been a suicide bombing? Or the poor bastard driving the truck had no idea what the cargo was, but to get that sort of precision, timing the explosion exactly when the fuel train was passing, must be a tricky thing to do remotely in an highly secured location. I imagine the easier approach is just to hit the detonator yourself at the appropriate moment.

[Nefertiti2]

It looks like the truck was carrying the explosives, therefore this would have had to have been a suicide bombing? Or the poor bastard driving the truck had no idea what the cargo was, but to get that sort of precision, timing the explosion exactly when the fuel train was passing, must be a tricky thing to do remotely in an highly secured location. I imagine the easier approach is just to hit the detonator yourself at the appropriate moment.

the Ukrainian government seem to find it amusing anyway

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176?s=20&t=dbBjP1vBVtTDuyudyLvTqQ

[anton pulisov]

Bridge open again for cars. Contraflow on the one side of the dual carriageway that didn't collapse.

[Lang Spoon]

It looks like the truck was carrying the explosives, therefore this would have had to have been a suicide bombing? Or the poor bastard driving the truck had no idea what the cargo was, but to get that sort of precision, timing the explosion exactly when the fuel train was passing, must be a tricky thing to do remotely in an highly secured location. I imagine the easier approach is just to hit the detonator yourself at the appropriate moment.

Isn't drone boat seen as the likely carrier now? The truck just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Lang Spoon]

the Ukrainian government seem to find it amusing anyway

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176?s=20&t=dbBjP1vBVtTDuyudyLvTqQ

Would you prefer them to show contrition for blowing up part of the Russian supply lines?

[Nefertiti2]

I think glorying in killing is vile whoever does it. (See also Guardian joruralist Jessica Elgot's now deleted Happy Birthday Vlad tweet. quoate tweeting image of the bridge being blown up.

And the various tweets by the Ukrainians about killing "russkies" being enthusiastically retweeted by the commentariat of Europe and the US make me sick to my stomach.

Since you ask.

[NickSTFU]

I have to agree with Nef on this.

[DCI Harry Batt]

Me too, to some extent. I think that people should accept the logic of their position - I want Ukraine to beat the Russian invasion, and I should not pretend that doesn't mean killing. But people from outside the war glorying in it is sick.

[Muukalainen]

Truck bomb exploded when next to the fuel train.

I wonder about this. Could a truck bomb really do so much structural damage to the bridge? For certain it could knock a great big hole in the surface but bringing down two whole spans would suggest that the bridge itself was somehow mined. (Assuming the bridge was designed and built to a good standard.) The obvious problem with this line of argument is that it would require the Ukrainians to pack a large quantity of explosives under the span, something that would require many men over a period of time to do unnoticed against a supposedly heavily guarded target. Another problem I have with the lorry bomb theory is that, assuming the report I've read is accurate, the explosion was centred on the Ukraine bound carriageway, indicating that the lorry was travelling from Russia to Crimea. This would require a Russia-based Ukrainian (sympathiser) with access to a large quantity of explosives carrying out the task.

[ursus arctos]

There's a lot of discussion about this based on the photos and video, with people having sting views both for and against the truck bomb

The fact that that is the story being briefed by the Ukrainians is seen as a plus by some and as evidence that it has to be a lie by others.

[steveeeeeeeee]

Reading the Sunday papers, the theory that this is an internal attack to discredit Putin appears to be gaining strength. Putin's delayed response also suggests this could be the case.

[San Bernardhinault]

I agree with TonTon and, to an extent, Nef. I understand that my desire to see Russian troops and control withdrawn to outside the internationally understood borders inevitably has to result in the deaths of Russian military - I don’t see any other workable route. But I’ve seen a lot of glorifying celebrations of death on Twitter, not just from Ukrainian military. And I find it thoroughly unpleasant and unnecessary.