Fracking

[Diable Rouge]

Various proposals have been made in recent months concerning the feasibility of fracking in Cavan, Leitrim and Roscommon, with the Government maintaining neutrality until a study on the matter has been published. The literature on the topic has become rather polarised, but while the industry has been linked to earthquakes in Lancashire and pollution in the US Midwest, it's unclear whether these are isolated incidents or an inherent consequence of the process.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Fracking

Without wishing to imply fracking is an environmentally benign process, a lot of the scare stories attributed to it simply don't stand up.

[linus]

Fracking

Not true, fracking is inherently a horribly polluting extraction process. The main risk is permanent damage to the water table, and thus to the long-term livelihood and health of the exploited areas. Other issues like earthquakes and disposal of toxic byproducts at teh surface are important but not as devastating as the issue of water table pollution from the huge amount of toxic chemicals pumped in and from the mixing of the table with the hydrocarbon deposits.

I'm glad the industry was blocked in Quebec, where the shale gas deposits happen to be in the most populated regions across the valley of the St Laurent. Part of the reason this happened though is because natural gas prices have plunged from $13 to $4 per MMBTU in 1 or 2 yrs, thus reducing the hunger of the industry and the corrupt Charest govt who is in their pocket (for another 48hrs or so, as we are booting the corrupt mofo out this week). Prices dove as there has been so much fracking in the US, where large areas of the country are going to be completely fucked over for centuries by this process (hello, NYC drinking water!)

I'm not as ecologically militant (never voted Green for instance) and would actually wholeheartedly support oil exploration/extraction in Quebec (we have phenomenally large reserves of non-tar sand oil in among other places Anticosti island in the St laurent gulf), but fracking is a vile and terribly polluting process which any reasonable citizen should oppose.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Fracking

linus wrote: Not true, fracking is inherently a horribly polluting extraction process.

Which chemicals in the fracking fluid do you consider to be 'horribly polluting'?

[linus]

Fracking

Many (most?) of the 500+ chemicals used in the process are highly toxic. In the US, where the industry was started, the list of chemicals had been kept secret through what is known as the "Haliburton Loophole", set up during the Cheney-Bush administration.

A quick rundown in Josh Fox' Gasland, at the 6:15 mark:

this is one of the best and most important recent documentaries made about the environment, a must-see.

Here's a list of the 71 most toxic drilling and fracturing chemicals, associated with 10 or more health effects:

• 2,2',2"-Nitrilotriethanol
• 2-Ethylhexanol
• 5-Chloro-2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one
• Acetic acid
• Acrolein
• Acrylamide (2-propenamide)
• Acrylic acid
• Ammonia
• Ammonium chloride
• Ammonium nitrate
• Aniline
• Benzyl chloride
• Boric acid
• Cadmium
• Calcium hypochlorite
• Chlorine
• Chlorine dioxide
• Dibromoacetonitrile 1
• Diesel 2
• Diethanolamine
• Diethylenetriamine
• Dimethyl formamide
• Epidian
• Ethanol (acetylenic alcohol)
• Ethyl mercaptan
• Ethylbenzene
• Ethylene glycol
• Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (2-BE)
• Ethylene oxide
• Ferrous sulfate
• Formaldehyde
• Formic acid
• Fuel oil #2
• Glutaraldehyde
• Glyoxal
• Hydrodesulfurized kerosene
• Hydrogen sulfide
• Iron
• Isobutyl alcohol (2-methyl-1-propanol)
• Isopropanol (propan-2-ol)
• Kerosene
• Light naphthenic distillates, hydrotreated
• Mercaptoacidic acid
• Methanol
• Methylene bis(thiocyanate)
• Monoethanolamine
• NaHCO3
• Naphtha, petroleum medium aliphatic
• Naphthalene
• Natural gas condensates
• Nickel sulfate
• Paraformaldehyde
• Petroleum distillate naptha
• Petroleum distillate/ naphtha
• Phosphonium, tetrakis(hydroxymethyl)-sulfate
• Propane-1,2-diol
• Sodium bromate
• Sodium chlorite (chlorous acid, sodium salt)
• Sodium hypochlorite
• Sodium nitrate
• Sodium nitrite
• Sodium sulfite
• Styrene
• Sulfur dioxide
• Sulfuric acid
• Tetrahydro-3,5-dimethyl-2H-1,3,5-thiadiazine-2-thione (Dazomet)
• Titanium dioxide
• Tributyl phosphate
• Triethylene glycol
• Urea
• Xylene

source: Earthworks
http://www.earthworksaction.org/issues/detail/hydraulic_fracturing_101#CHEMICALS

[Beatle Simon]

Fracking

Its brought Paul and Yoko together.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9507811/Yoko-Ono-and-Sean-Lennon-call-for-fracking-ban.html#

[hobbes]

Fracking

Isn't acetic acid vinegar?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Fracking

A lot of those things are toxic according to concentration. Sodium Chlorite would probably kill you if you drank it neat, but it's used in eye drops and contact lens cleaners.

[Diable Rouge]

Fracking

Stumpy Pepys wrote: Without wishing to imply fracking is an environmentally benign process, a lot of the scare stories attributed to it simply don't stand up.

I suspect that in any case, it would only be considered as a last resort - alongside the wind and wave developments, various offshore oil and gas deposits are being assessed for potential, which has already taken years given the planning and environmental processes, so by the point fracking would have been considered, the other options should be fully online.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Fracking

Rogin the Kitten Minder wrote: A lot of those things are toxic according to concentration.

All chemicals are poison: the important thing is the dose.

If you're worried about ethanol, iron, acetic acid and methanol, then I suggest you start lobbying for beer to be banned.

About two-thirds of that list are probably circulating around my body, fracking or no fracking.

[hobbes]

Fracking

I suspect that in any case, it would only be considered as a last resort - alongside the wind and wave developments, various offshore oil and gas deposits are being assessed for potential, which has already taken years given the planning and environmental processes, so by the point fracking would have been considered, the other options should be fully online.

Don't underestimate the power or the self-interested stubbornness of the oil lobby.
if someone invented a cold fusion reactor, they'd still insist on burning fossil fuel.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Fracking

hobbes wrote: … if someone invented a cold fusion reactor, they'd still insist on burning fossil fuel.

They did. And an evil conspiracy is suppressing it.

(Or was it because it didn't work …?)

[Sits]

Fracking

It has been pushed hard in Australia. mostly for coal seam gas, as opposed to shale gas in North America. However the environmental lobby in unison with Anna Bligh in Queensland have brought such bad publicity that there is a big question mark over the whole thing here.

[linus]

Fracking

Fracking is still a project in Europe, but in the US it is anything but a last resort energy option. All you need to do to appreciate how wide its footprint is is to look outside your window on a transcoastal flight. The new wrinkle is that the industry is about to attack the Marcelus shale region, which covers a vast swath of the densely populated American northeast, the previous forrays were previously mostly focused on more sparsely inhabited regions in the west and SW.

[linus]

Fracking

Stumpy Pepys wrote:

A lot of those things are toxic according to concentration.

All chemicals are poison: the important thing is the dose.

If you're worried about ethanol, iron, acetic acid and methanol, then I suggest you start lobbying for beer to be banned.

About two-thirds of that list are probably circulating around my body, fracking or no fracking.

In many communities near fracked wells, the level of toxicity in those and other chemicals has been high enough to poison people who rely on well water.

[VTTBoscombe]

Fracking

As part of the real world, I have to work trying to get "third party logistics solutions" i.e. trucks and warehouses, in various parts of Europe.
The chemicals needed to do support Fracking, for shale oil, gas etc extraction, have to be stored somewhere before use.
And the warehouses that are allowed to store them, need certain regulations around being allowed to store them.
They are EXTREMLY hard to find.
Sometimes it seems easier to find places that have the license to store used radioactive waste.
So I would suspect, that these are pretty nasty substances, forget your acids and caustics, heavy metals etc; but it's also biocides, and their ilk that control the bacterial issues with the fracking process and keep the water from corroding and attacking the equipment in various nice ways.
Apart from this, nothing for the public to concern themselves about.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Fracking

linus wrote: In many communities near fracked wells, the level of toxicity in those and other chemicals has been high enough to poison people who rely on well water.

How many is 'many'? In the US, at least as of June 2011, the EPA had seen no proven cases where the fracking process itself had affected water supplies.

[linus]

Fracking

EPA: "Fracking may cause groundwater pollution."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/environment/story/2011-12-08/epa-fracking-pollution/51745004/1

[AFC42]

Fracking

It would be worth checking how close the proposed drill sites are to the areas in the North that were drilled and fractured some years ago.

[Stumpy Pepys]

Fracking

linus wrote: EPA: "Fracking may cause groundwater pollution."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/environment/story/2011-12-08/epa-fracking-pollution/51745004/1

That's kind of the point. For all your talk of horrible pollution and going-to-hell-in-a-handcart, you've managed to post a single instance where groundwater contamination may have happened.

Which is why I'm waiting on a more objective analysis before I make up my mind.

[linus]

Fracking

Until recently, the EPA had been blocked from publishing any negative reports on fracking. The country and the agency were run by Dick Cheney, who was still getting his paychecks from one of the largest players in the industry. Even today, there is a lot of economic and political pressure (and not just from Republicans) to support the industry, so the criticism that has recently come out from the EPA is a huge milestone.

The article below, in addition to documenting cases of contamination, gives you a idea of the current climate in the US and the challenges of documenting contamination from fracking.

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2012/08/27/gvl10827.htm

[WOM]

Fracking

Fracking causes earthquakes in BC.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/fracking-caused-many-low-level-earthquakes-in-bc-probe-finds/article4523182/

[Gangster Octopus]

Fracking

Trust the frackers, for they wouldn't lie. Would they?

[Guy Profumo]

So.

Earth tremors around Fylde.

Fuck 'em, I say, they voted for it so if their houses fall down let 'em.

Amazing how Tories only become concerned when it affects them personally.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-49471321

[Eggchaser]

Yeh but Russian gas something.