They don't give a shit

[Nefertiti2]

Southern Water has been fined a record £90m for deliberately dumping billions of litres of raw sewage into protected seas over several years for its own financial gain.

Mr Justice Jeremy Johnson, sentencing the privatised water company, said it had discharged between 16bn and 21bn litres of raw sewage into some of the most precious, delicate environments in the country.



“These offences show a shocking and wholesale disregard for the environment, for precious and delicate ecosystems and coastlines, for human health, and for fisheries and other legitimate businesses that operate in the coastal waters,” said the judge.

He said the company had a history of criminal activity for its “previous and persistent pollution of the environment”. It had 168 previous offences and cautions but had ignored these and not altered its behaviour. “There is no evidence the company took any notice of the penalties imposed or the remarks of the courts. Its offending simply continued,” he said.

None of the directors or senior staff have faced charges

[ursus arctos]

The nature of English law in this area is partially responsible for that state of affairs

Company directors, managers and officers can be prosecuted if a criminal offence is committed with their consent or connivance or is attributable to their neglect. However, the hurdle for the prosecution of individuals is relatively high and the prosecution must show that the defendant was in a position to control and guide the company’s strategy and policy. The formal delegation of management responsibility will help to protect directors from prosecution, but does not exclude the risk of prosecution. Liability does not usually extend beyond the legal entity responsible for the incident to a holding company unless there is clear evidence of de facto control, which is typically absent. Directors’ and officers’ insurance is widely available for successful defence costs; however, contractual indemnities for criminal liability are unenforceable under public policy.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/premnsikka/status/1413506996272312324?s=20

[caja-dglh]

Officers is reasonable. Directors are always going to be a very difficult challenge, basically driven by how difficult it is to govern a corporate as a Director.

**Rapid recalibration** I remember what I am more familiar with as Directors are probably Non-Executive Directors in the UK (and how I wrote above), whereas Officers are Senior Company Management who likely sit on various parts of the Board.

[Nefertiti2]

Company directors, managers and officers can be prosecuted if a criminal offence is committed with their consent or connivance or is attributable to their neglect. However, the hurdle for the prosecution of individuals is relatively high and the prosecution must show that the defendant was in a position to control and guide the company’s strategy and policy.

Given that the decision to spray shit for several years invokves guiding the company’s strategy and policy not to mention the billions of gallons of sewage i don't see why that's hard to prove.

[Nefertiti2]

e said the company had a history of criminal activity for its “previous and persistent pollution of the environment”. It had 168 previous offences and cautions but had ignored these and not altered its behaviour.

Someone was guiding that- there must be a paper trail and minutes.

21bn litres of raw sewage over several years

[ursus arctos]

in my experience, there is rarely a paper trail and never minutes.

[Toby Gymshorts]

I have thoughts on this. However I've also had some wine and trying to express those thoughts would be... futile.

I might revisit this. I might not. Depends on if I can get over my massive sense of resignation at the state of insurance at present.

[caja-dglh]

Someone was guiding that- there must be a paper trail and minutes.

The best way to get out of minuting a meeting is to actually minute a meeting in detail (this is also a way to drive yourself insane and destroy your career at said company).

You can see the better efforts to prove such cases in the US - it typically involves turning a witness, because the written evidence is really challenging to find unless it is a bunch of lower level, higher compensated bozo's who leave it on a chat. The senior folk either legitimately are not aware of that behavior (in the latter case) or - when they are - are perfectly capable of beating the hurdle of proving it in Court. Hell, in the US that is pretty much how General Counsel became an established senior management (top-6) position with the unwritten role requirement of "make sure we cannot be prosecuted".

[Sits]

As a child, on Cornish holidays I can remember finding myself swimming amongst an assortment of floating objects and realising just how close a sewage outlet was. Then I thought “It must be OK or they wouldn’t be allowed to do it.” Oh for the innocence of youth.

This was in Charlestown and the outlet was just on the side of Gull Rock not visible from the beach. Poldark fans would recognise it as the one Demelza fished next to.

[Balderdasha]

Mr Justice Jeremy Johnson, sentencing the privatised water company, said it had discharged between 16bn and 21bn litres of raw sewage into some of the most precious, delicate environments in the country.

If it was my choice, I'd fine them £16-21bn or whatever the cost is to properly clean £16-21bn litres of sewage, whichever is the greater amount. That might deter them slightly more.

The hurdle for prosecuting an individual manager / director is incredibly high in this country, and all they need is a lack of paperwork and an underling who will back them up when they say they did or didn't verbally discuss whatever they needed to, and they're golden.

[Gangster Octopus]

Missed this thread. Must admit I'd've put it in the capitalism thread meself.