I loved you, you paid my rent.

[Logan Mountstuart]

Just musing on stuff I've been reading on social media recently.

I know 3 people who's partners died prematurely. All of them have children. I love them all, and I'm immensely proud of how they are dealing with their loss, or trying too. And everyone else they know does too. Unequivocally, and in two cases for more than a decade. Two of them have happily remarried. One is still in pieces, and I don't think he'll ever really recover. He's my best friend back in England.

I've thought this for a long time but never really dared to say it to anyone : if their partner had just left them, rather than dying, would they be happier, or better off?

If your partner dies, the sympathy and understanding is immediate. If your partner leaves you after decades of building a life together it's not, really. You may have friends and family who support you, but so does your ex partner. Whereas in nearly every bereavement there is the certainty that your partner loved you and that you demonstrated your love to the end, in divorce you could have given your absolute best to someone for 30 years but then be told that your not good enough. And support is not unequivocal at all. There is a constant feeling that you were not good enough. That you could have done better. That your children have been disadvantaged somehow. And you really don't go through life feeling that you were appreciated.

You can't go onFacebookand say that it's 10 years since your life partner left you and get 100 hearts. If you know anyone who is divorced after a long relationship, regardless of which side your loyalties lie, check how they are, Give them a hug as soon as it's safe and bloody legal.

[MsD]

Yeh, there's also the awkwardness of maintaining (or not) relationships with friends and family.

My friend just says of his ended marriage "it ran its course" and that's fair enough, I think. Other friends say they'd become like siblings rather than lovers, and they found that they did want romantic love, after all.

I don't know how to avoid that feeling of "not good enough" especially if you're replaced by someone younger, better-looking, more interesting, whatever and I have a bit of trouble not being judgey with men who've just traded up or younger.

[Balderdasha]

This is an interesting topic, but I don't understand the thread title. Is it a quote or some sort of pun?

Anyway, my dad left my mum about 12 years ago. In the immediate aftermath she said it would have been easier if he'd died and also that she might have found it easier if he'd "traded up" / gone for someone younger, but he'd actually run off with a different woman the same age as her.

My parents still haven't divorced and my mum still uses her married name, which I find odd. But she finds the whole situation excruciatingly embarrassing.

Other friends of hers in a similar situation have got back on the dating scene (with varying levels of success and horror) but my mum remains resolutely opposed to any further relationships with the opposite sex.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I wonder how my mum would have got on if my dad had died rather than treated her like shit then fucked off. Dunno. She certainly never got over the betrayal.

It's just a riff on the Pet Shop Boys song, isn't it?

[Satchmo Distel]

Yes.

[DCI Harry Batt]

(Heck of an earworm this morning)

[Eggchaser]

Can I make an impassioned plea for everyone to make a Will, especially if you have minor children, aren't married, have no children, or are in a "blended family". I see too many post death arguments and trauma caused by people not taking a small amount of time (and, yes, money) to get things down in writing before it's too late.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I keep making a will and nearly finishing it and then not quite doing so.

[WOM]

I finally connected with a lawyer last week to get this done. Of course, I'm dragging my ass just doing the initial paperwork now....

[WOM]

if their partner had just left them, rather than dying, would they be happier, or better off?

They're two different kinds of pain, though, I think. If their partner died, the relationship just ended at whatever point of joy existed...be it little or great. There are all kinds of what-ifs, of course, but there's an inarguable finality. If they left them, however, they have to continue 'dealing' with that person even after they've moved on. Complicated by kids, money, family, etc.

Probably the best analogy for me would be the deaths of parents; it's likely going to be one of two ways - quick and merciful or protracted and...well...miserable. Each carries its own blessings and curses. If it's quick, you probably don't get a chance to say goodbye and so on. If it's protracted, you get a chance to settle emotional affairs but you also see a loved on suffer.

In both of the above - divorces and deaths - you don't get a choice. You play the hand you're dealt and make the best of it.

In LM's example above, the sentence that stands out is "you could have given your absolute best to someone for 30 years but then be told that your not good enough". So...you know what...you did your best. You did you what you could and you can't control how the other person receives what you offer. Relationships are partnerships, and it's not all on you by any means.

[Balderdasha]

My parents have both written wills. I'm not convinced that these supercede the fact that they're still married. If say, my mum dies first and leaves everything to me and my sister but my dad contests the will on the basis that he's still married to her, what happens then? (My dad is an arse, I'm not ruling out this course of events).

[DCI Harry Batt]

My parents have both written wills. I'm not convinced that these supercede the fact that they're still married. If say, my mum dies first and leaves everything to me and my sister but my dad contests the will on the basis that he's still married to her, what happens then? (My dad is an arse, I'm not ruling out this course of events).

It depends. Your mum has testamentary freedom but your dad might be able to contest on the basis that he hasn't been left reasonable financial provision.

[DCI Harry Batt]

"contest" not really being the right word, tbh. He might be able to make a claim that he should receive something from the estate notwithstanding the will

[MsD]

I still don't know wtf is going on with my divorce and I haven't got time to chase it. I emailed and was told I should hear in 10 days. That was in December.

[Logan Mountstuart]

I suppose my original post was one of those classic don't post when your pissed pieces of melancholy. But I still agree with my basic point.

Divorce has seriously fucked up my life and all I do is survive now. Every one who knows me told me it was not my fault, that I was severely let down, but most of them ended up telling me to buck up and get on with things because I think they didn't know how to deal with me after a while. I can't ever imagine them saying that to my friend in England.

[WOM]

How long has it been?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

All property in a marriage is considered jointly owned, isn't it? Even property or bank accounts in the name of one partner. So no matter who died first, they would have no estate to leave, it would become the other's property? That's always been my assumption. I don't have a will leaving anything to Signora Rogin, even though the house and the bulk of our savings are in my sole name - I've just assumed if I get shot by an enraged Man United fan one day it would just go to her automatically?

[Eggchaser]

You may want to Google "Laws of intestacy flowchart". And then get a Will drafted.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Do you do mates rates?

[DCI Harry Batt]

All property in a marriage is considered jointly owned, isn't it? Even property or bank accounts in the name of one partner. So no matter who died first, they would have no estate to leave, it would become the other's property?

I mean, there's a longer answer, as the chaser man says. The short answer is "no".

I mean, if your estate is worth less than an amount I can't remember, or you don't have children or grandchildren, they yes. Otherwise no.

[hobbes]

P and I did wills as soon as we found out she was pregnant. And got a joint account too.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Wife and I sorted out a will, for a start our joint mortgage has a complication and she wanted to be sure her son will be cared for if she passes away before me. A will makes thing simpler at a time when people will have a lot to deal with and saving them the admin burden is a courtesy i think.

[Eggchaser]

Do you do mates rates?

Only workmates rates, but if cash is an issue, there are lots of free will weeks run by charities where the solicitor waives the fee in lieu of a donation to the charity. Better you than the ones that annoy me, who roll in with a million pound house, 500k in the bank and cadge a free will because The Mail told them where to find a provider.