Brenda's Wealth Shock

[Lang Spoon]

laverte Top use of "outwith" there, I miss that word.

[Patrick Thistle]

On the subject of sneering: this interests me much more than royalty. As a reproach it has successfully attached itself to "middle class liberals". It feels like it can now be made to cover any expression of incomprehension at or opposition to a contrary political position, so long as that position is held sincerely by someone with cultural 'authenticity', especially older people and white working-class people. i'm also trying to think here about who does not sneer: whose concerns are legitimate, even when they are damaging or inexplicable. We still tend to romanticise 'gut feelings' and overlook the mental, political effort that goes into propping them up.

Yep. Point out a fairly obviously flaw in an argument like "They bring a lot of tourists in" and apparently you're sneering at people. What an unkind and uncivilised brute of a republican!

[Patrick Thistle]

My guess is that it will be dismantled peacefully from within. After the Queen dies, and after Charles dies, William will see the writing on the wall and proactively dismantle the whole thing, ceding the properties to the state while keeping a massive amount of wealth for him and his heirs. Bookmark this page and we'll revisit my prediction in 30 years.

If he was really smart he would set up a deal where he traded off being the last King of England for being the first President of England, following a popular vote on the matter through a referendum. Then serve his term and then retire. That would be his place in history guaranteed.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

which was far more common in the past when women weren't in line,

On a pedantic history note, women were in line, they just didn't have equal priority rights. And far from ending "because women weren't in line", the last 3 previous dynasties all ended precisely for reasons closely connected with women who did become monarchs:

The Tudor dynasty ended because Queen Elizabeth 1st never married.
The Stuart dynasty ended because Queen Anne had such bad genes and/or bad luck that none of her 17 pregnancies produced a child who survived to adulthood.
The Hanoverian dynasty "ended" purely in the sense of a line-drawing exercise when William IV's niece Victoria became Queen on his death but, despite being the niece of a Hanoverian, was regarded as the first monarch of a new "Saxe-Coburg" dynasty later hastily rebranded as "Windsor" in the face of anti-German hysteria in WW1. The current dynasty really goes back to George I on any sensible analysis.

[Duncan Gardner]

Brenda is the 32nd (?) great grandchild of Billy Conqueror. And he could claim direct descent back to Eggchaser the Unhinged or whoever.

[Hot Pepsi]

Perhaps this is obvious, but I suppose that a major reason why the UK and the Commonwealth can't move on from the monarchy is that there isn't clear agreement on how to pick a new head of state. Trump, among other things, has damaged the reputation of the US system beyond repair, so much so that a number of otherwise sensible Americans are regretting 1776 and all of that. that's just increased the fear of the unknown and there not much concern or recognition of the downsides of the current set-up.

My understanding is that Australia blew its best chance to be a republic because they couldn't agree on how that would work, exactly.

The French system and the German system seem to work pretty well.

And a few countries carry on with a monarch but they seem to have a much lower profile and, I think, wealth. So that might be the easiest near term solution.

[Patrick Thistle]

Also the UK doesn't have a written constitution so while the current unelected dictator for life is a relatively reasonable wrinkly granny, if she got replaced then it would be handing over the keys to Boris Ceausescu or whoever.

[Patrick Thistle]

Out of nowhere Mrs Thistle asked if any of the political parties have a commitment to abolishing the monarchy. I wasn't sure off the top of my head, although I know Plaid are republican in the sense that an independent Wales wouldn't persist with the British monarch. Duncan, are the Greens officially abolitionist?

[Duncan Gardner]

Patrick Thistle Yes- politicians should be elected, officials appointed by competition, slebs pay their taxes

Biggest problem with monarchy is the cover it gives to the PM to act potentially as a dictator. So in that sense it hardly matters how pleasant or popular the monarch is

Hot Pepsi we could have a ceremonial Pres like Germany, or Ireland. Alternatively the Speaker of Parliament or another official could host dinners and open supermarkets

[WOM]

But...but...but surely U2, as citizens of the world, should domicile where their tax money can cause the least amount of trouble?

[Duncan Gardner]

Davy Trimble: Bono has solved the Ulster Question. What should he do next?

John Hume: Stop making crap records?

WOM if I'm ever allowed to make that family reunion in Toronto you can referee- cousin Sharon from Yonge-Lawewnce is an ardent royalist

[Balderdasha]

No-one ever takes my proposal for the monarchy seriously. I think that we should keep the institution, we can even keep the palaces and the beefeaters and all the pomp and ceremony if we want for tourism purposes, but who actually gets to be "the Queen/King" on any given week or month would follow a similar process to jury service. The same set of adults would be eligible for it; you'd be sent a notice in the post saying that for the second week of June 2022, you will officially be the monarch. You'd have a brief training session, be given some fancy clothes and then spend a week cutting ribbons and having an audience with the prime minister. If we can trust the average adult to judge an individual's guilt in court, I reckon we can trust them to be the ceremonial monarch for a week.

[Etienne]

Out of nowhere Mrs Thistle asked if any of the political parties have a commitment to abolishing the monarchy. I wasn't sure off the top of my head, although I know Plaid are republican in the sense that an independent Wales wouldn't persist with the British monarch. Duncan, are the Greens officially abolitionist?

The official policy is that the legislative, executive and judicial function of the monarchy should cease. Which seems to leave it to carry on as a ceremonial role.

[San Bernardhinault]

I've actually proposed something similar to Balders. If you need a nominal head of state, I don't see why this doesn't work. Maybe only have it open to those who opt in, unlike jury service.

[ursus arctos]

Strikes me that those who would opt in would be precisely those who one would not want serving in this capacity

[San Bernardhinault]

Fair point. But if it's only for a week, what harm could be done?

It eliminates the "But we don't want elections" argument. It eliminates the "Presidents are too expensive" argument. It largely eliminates the politics problem that anyone who wants to be in power probably shouldn't be in power, and certainly anyone who actually puts work into getting into power has to be viewed with a lot of skepticism.

[Southport Zeb]

No-one ever takes my proposal for the monarchy seriously. I think that we should keep the institution, we can even keep the palaces and the beefeaters and all the pomp and ceremony if we want for tourism purposes, but who actually gets to be "the Queen/King" on any given week or month would follow a similar process to jury service. The same set of adults would be eligible for it; you'd be sent a notice in the post saying that for the second week of June 2022, you will officially be the monarch. You'd have a brief training session, be given some fancy clothes and then spend a week cutting ribbons and having an audience with the prime minister. If we can trust the average adult to judge an individual's guilt in court, I reckon we can trust them to be the ceremonial monarch for a week.

There's an episode of the Mark Steel Solution about this idea

[ursus arctos]

You want to roll the dice with Farrage as the monarch for a week?

You feeling' lucky?

[Balderdasha]

Before implementing this plan, I would also ensure that all the powers that the Queen currently has "theoretically" but never actually exercises, would be more severely restricted. Say, maybe they'd still exist in theory, but it would require all 52 separate citizen monarchs in one year to agree to the same outcome for the power to actually be exercised.

[ursus arctos]

That would be wise

Though I see one point of the Guardian series as being that she has been exercising theoretically latent powers without it being at all widely known

[ursus arctos]

In any event, it seems to me that a radical downsizing to something more akin to the Nordic/Low Country model, with the excess wealth going to the state, is both an easier and better plan to implement

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Why not just make the prime minister of the Netherlands, or the chancellor of Germany the absolute monarch It has happened before. The uk has given democracy a bit of a half hearted go, but ultimately what is the point of having the vote if you're going to use it to vote for brexit or boris Johnson. The uk may just not be culturally suited for self rule

[Wouter D]

Why not just make the prime minister of the Netherlands, or the chancellor of Germany the absolute monarch

Because fuck Mark Rutte, that's why.

The UK would probably be better off with Angela Merkel, but her successor, not so much.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Because fuck Mark Rutte, that's why.

You would probably be better off with Angela Merkel, but her successor, not so much.

The problem is that the UK would be better off under the rule of a puppy that was shitting uncontrollably everywhere. Anything would be better than that living embodiment of the seven deadly sins, all stuffed into the same skin balloon as 350 lbs of rotting cottage cheese. Even being placed under the direct rule of Viktor Orban would represent an improvement in the governance of the UK.

[Wouter D]

Johnsonian incompetence may work out better for the country in the long run than if he were replaced by, say, the competent evil that is Friedrich Merz.