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    It's akin to how Nixon taped himself committing criminal offenses, which in turn resulted in his co-conspirators also being on tape.

    [My understanding of Watergate is that Nixon might have brazened it out had there been no taping because it would have come down to "he said, he said" to a certain degree, or at least given the GOP senators enough wriggle room not to convict him].

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      I think that is a fundamentally accurate view of Watergate.

      The shift in public opinion (and especially elite GOP opinion) when the tapes came out was dramatic.

      A difference is that Nixon taped everything for most of his second term, and seemed primarily motivated by a need to have blackmail material rather than any questions of legacy. Not only was it never thought they would become public, the intention was very much that their mere existence would remain secret.

      Whereas this seems to have been another Javanka joint designed to launder their own reputations.

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        How sweet would it be for the final undoing to be a direct result of the man's narcissism?

        Not that I believe there will be such an undoing. Mental incapacity remains as a last resort.
        Last edited by Sits; 22-06-2022, 04:16.

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          https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1539337363611979776?t=YpeDbFrGn0I6pQBaT7wIBQ&s=19

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            He could literally shoot somebody on fifth avenue and nobody would care.

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              Himself, hopefully.

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                Imagine if HRC (or any senior Democrat or just one of her business/celeb allies) had sent those Tweets in 2016.

                Also notable that he lambasted the Electoral College in 2012 but loved it in 2016, on (IIRC) a lower vote than Obama got.

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                  https://twitter.com/kfaulders/status/1540014972964667400?s=21&t=lh5_EXkM_BMjURzeIO7NbQ

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                    https://twitter.com/norahodonnell/status/1540076201594818560?s=21&t=lh5_EXkM_BMjURzeIO7NbQ

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                      Huh. Is there a reason that this emerges in today's hearing on the same day that his house gets searched?

                      For lawyers like these is the instinct for record preservation always so strong that they won't destroy stuff that incriminates them? Because if I was involved in the coup attempt, I'd have burned and deleted everything, melted down all my hard drives, fed my sim cards to the sharks, and a search would (hopefully) find nothing.

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                        The Committee can share evidence with the DOJ. The DOJ can also develop evidence in their own.

                        Something they found was sufficient probable cause of the commission of a crime for them to get a federal judge to issue a search warrant.

                        It may come as a surprise, but I am not intimately familiar with a sufficient number of felonious lawyers to have a view on your second question, but would posit that a) these folks are just not that smart and b) simply didn't have control over all of the records that were generated.

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                          There's also so many fucking records, and so many copies of them. The only possible way to avoid it is to ring each other from payphones, or meet face to face and keep everything in your head, like Tony soprano. That requires discipline, focus, and commitment, that most miscreants simply don't have in practice
                          Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 23-06-2022, 22:28.

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                            Rudy hated phones. He wouldn't have one in his house. He used to get all his calls second hand, then you'd have to call the people back from an outside phone. There were guys, that's all they did all day long was take care of Rudy's phone call.

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                              hahaha. In fairness Rudy was more likely to show a television host evidence of a crime on his phone than do any of that.

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                                Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                Rudy hated phones. He wouldn't have one in his house. He used to get all his calls second hand, then you'd have to call the people back from an outside phone. There were guys, that's all they did all day long was take care of Rudy's phone call.
                                That was in Goodfellas.

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                                  Heg, I was playing the scene with rudy as Paulie when I was reading it. Ray liotta had some iconic narrations in that movie. It's very hard to pull off well
                                  Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 24-06-2022, 00:09.

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                                    Trump must have assumed that the AG's office would follow the Koup plot rather than trying to preserve some level of integrity. That plus Pence were perhaps his fatal miscalculations, although it's also true that the constitutional barriers to a Koup just seem to have been ignored by the people around Trump even though they were obvious to all impartial observers (such as in our discussions on here in Nov-Dec 2020, where we rehearsed numerous points about how a Koup was bound to fail).

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                                      I don't think he assumed anything other than that he would be able to bully someone into doing what he wanted done, just as he has has for his entire life.

                                      He has never had the slightest idea of what the Constitution says or how it works in practice.

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                                        Or that anybody could have a higher loyalty than loyalty to him.

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                                          See, e.g.

                                          https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1540325402123841536?s=20&t=ycXmTMNuALhuRcZHUFJjxg

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                                            Or vassal. An employee has the option to walk away.

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                                              Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                              Or that anybody could have a higher loyalty than loyalty to him.
                                              Or that he couldn't tie them up in protracted litigation to make the problem go away.

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                                                https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1541201419499446272?s=21&t=t3GTyf5Z8DSVCez-wpVStA

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                                                  https://twitter.com/NationaITragedy/status/1541205313465962496?t=KY7-Lp16dyRv1vMH-ClUvQ&s=19

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                                                    https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1541846743536607234?s=21&t=uVeihvh6Z14hWvL6i3qp4g

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