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W(h)ither Unionism and Loyalism?

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    elguapo4 maybe by the time BCC get round to the Shankill it'll have depopulated to insignifance

    Can anyone in the 2% minority give me a translation for DG- Donnchadh Ghardineir? Unless of course they rename after some local Bon Jovi like Caral nee Gollum

    Lang Spoon I was stressing above that all residents in independent S & W should get citizenship. Without overdoing my bias against blood and soil baloney, granny rulers should get in the queue

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      Andorra being the third?

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        Yep.

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          Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
          elguapo4 maybe by the time BCC get round to the Shankill it'll have depopulated to insignifance

          Can anyone in the 2% minority give me a translation for DG- Donnchadh Ghardineir? Unless of course they rename after some local Bon Jovi like Caral nee Gollum

          Lang Spoon I was stressing above that all residents in independent S & W should get citizenship. Without overdoing my bias against blood and soil baloney, granny rulers should get in the queue

          absolutely, residency then place of birth should be the two main qualifiers. Although the current SNP idea for qualification still ends up letting the Rod Stewart types get the passport, it avoids the racist bullshit Michael McDowell complicated Irish citizenship with.
          Last edited by Lang Spoon; 08-01-2021, 19:50.

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            Lang Spoon remind me about MMcD's racism?

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              Twenty-seventh Amendment of the Constitution Act 2004- cynical Sunday World reader baiting dog whistle par excellence.

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                Belgium and Italy are other agglomerations of very well-established and distinct polities

                It is actually quite common

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                  Poor Jamie. Do you think someone was deliberately trolling him?

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                    Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                    elguapo4 maybe by the time BCC get round to the Shankill it'll have depopulated to insignifance

                    Can anyone in the 2% minority give me a translation for DG- Donnchadh Ghardineir? Unless of course they rename after some local Bon Jovi like Caral nee Gollum

                    Lang Spoon I was stressing above that all residents in independent S & W should get citizenship. Without overdoing my bias against blood and soil baloney, granny rulers should get in the queue
                    Donnchadh Gairn?ir
                    Should be an e fada (or e accent) instead of the question mark. Not sure how to get it on the board
                    Last edited by fospheny; 08-01-2021, 23:21.

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                      Thanks for that

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                        Lewis either thinks the entire population of NI is as thick as his recent predecessor Karen Bradley, or doesn't care because he doesn't need their votes.

                        Not a sensible attitude I fear. As I suggested above, next time some Paddies break into Parliament they're unlikely to stop at ransacking the Speaker's office

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                          Originally posted by laverte View Post
                          Bizarre Lw Triangle . All good points. i'm learning a lot here.
                          Oh, unquestionably. i'm just surprised that the nation-state is – still – the chosen model of separation. The nationalist parties' credo seems to be "We can do the same thing, but better." i think for all its flaws the SNP has shown that's fair enough, especially in a climate of Brexit and Tory intransigence. It just seems to demand a lot of political work and energy for an outcome which doesn't feel all that transformative. Plus, strategically, i can't see a path to the promised land of independence without whipping up more of the ethnocultural stuff that makes me uneasy.
                          Sure, that's an argument I can accept and subscribe to to a certain degree. That said, with the left in retreat and the prospect of another decade of austerity and far-right rule (or austerity-light managed decline under Sir Keir) independence seems to offer a more plausible pathway to transformational politics than persisting in an increasingly isolationist and reactionary UK.

                          That's a good point. How can left-leaning unionists show solidarity with those who might hijack and transform British identity without legitimising its present incarnation or the activities of the British state?

                          i have a nasty feeling that a post-British state would plunge ever deeper into denial and lash out yet more aggressively at its own minorities and the rest of the world. It would be less effective if it had to do this in isolation, rather than supported by Trumps and Orbans and Rupert Murdochs worldwide.
                          This is happening anyway and I can't see anything changing for the next decade at least.

                          In the 2016 referendum, a large minority of the Welsh electorate (about 38% of registered voters) bought into arguments motivated by white supremacy framed in the language of British nationalism. To some extent people who are persuaded that Wales should be independent are less likely to buy into the most harmful myths that British nationalism is built on. Welsh nationalism has its own problematic myths but it hasn't historically shared the same fixation on external borders and non-white immigration that British nationalism does.

                          i think that's absolutely key and i'm keen to read people's opinions about it. Who would count as Welsh/Scottish? What form would the border(s) take? What, ideally, would be the most important changes to relations with England, English power, and English people?
                          Well, an independent Wales would have about a fifth of its citizens being English-born and about the same number of Welsh people being resident in England. It'd have to acknowledge that between 5-10% of people who live in Wales work in England and the difficulty of travelling from the north to the south of the country without crossing the border. That presumably would necessitate freedom of movement between England and Wales and an expansive concept of citizenship including the restoration of birthright citizenship.

                          On the other hand Wales would be free to get rid of the internal borders that migrants in the UK are subject to (including the hostile environment), remove itself from NATO and dramatically scale down military spending (since it has no need to be a Great Power).

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                            Let them eat sovereignty

                            https://twitter.com/GdnPolitics/status/1348065151954481152?s=19

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                              On the subject of "Britishness" versus "Englishness" or "Welshness" I found this really interesting - on how the various intersecting identities voted in the Brexit referendum.

                              Specifically, how "British" you feel has the opposite effect on your Brexit vote depending on whether you're born in England or Wales (Welsh born people who feel more British than Welsh tended to vote for Brexit whereas English born people who feel more British than English tended to vote against Brexit).

                              https://discoversociety.org/2021/06/...ure-of-the-uk/

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