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    Originally posted by hobbes View Post
    P pointed out something when we were discussing this last night. The chances of getting blood clots while on the pill are hugely greater than the risk from the AZ jab. But doctors don't bother to tell women about it. And they're like 1 in 1000 during pregnancy. Which also doesn't get mentioned much.

    Some idea of comparative risk would be useful from them in charge so people can make an educated decision.
    I'm not fully up to date with the story, but isn't the problem the kind of blood clot? If my reading was right (and it may well not be) the clots triggered by AZ - while incredibly rare - may be more lethal than the kind you get on the pill.

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      This doesn't really belong in this thread, but it;s the most obvious place for it at the moment

      The European Court has backed Czechia's compulsory vaccination law for kids (not Covid, but the standard childhood ones). I think this could have positive far reaching effects

      https://emerging-europe.com/news/ech...sory-vaccines/

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        It would be interesting to see if they reached the same conclusion as regards an objection grounded in religious observance (the reasons for the family's non-vaxx stance aren't clear, but seem to be more general).

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          Back up to over half-a-million jabs in the UK in the last 24 hours, which is more like it, and the Northern Ireland roll-out has reached those in their 40s.

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            Mrs dglh got her first shot this morning (Pfizer). It was a little eventful as a routine traffic stop had resulted in a shoot-out, so traffic was getting diverted down the typically-quick-way-to-avoid-holdups route.

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              Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
              Back up to over half-a-million jabs in the UK in the last 24 hours, which is more like it, and the Northern Ireland roll-out has reached those in their 40s.
              Just under 100k first doses, 408k second doses if anyone wants the breakdown

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                Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post

                I'm not fully up to date with the story, but isn't the problem the kind of blood clot? If my reading was right (and it may well not be) the clots triggered by AZ - while incredibly rare - may be more lethal than the kind you get on the pill.
                They're more dangerous, yes. The clots that you get from birth control are generally DVT (deep vein thrombosis) and PE (pulmonary embolism) -- these are related, as a DVT, which generally form in the legs (and can be caused by sitting too much, these are the ones that you're warned about getting from long-haul plane flights) can get loose and then turn into a PE.

                The clots caused by the AZ vaccine include CVST (cerebral venous sinus thrombosis) and SVT (splanchic vein thrombosis) which are very rare conditions that involve both blood clotting and a very low platelet count and have a much higher mortality rate.

                (I had a DVT a year ago, and I deal with things by researching them)

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                  Given that the AZ efficacy only goes up by about 6% after the second dose in a 12 week regimen, and that afaik there is no data on how long the first dose offers protection beyond 12 weeks (that is, it could be longer) I think the looming issue will not be convincing people to take their first dose - people can see the positive risk-benefit there - but to take their second.

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                    France has decided to mix/match it seems so you would get a Pfizer for your 2nd dose. Bold move...

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                      My second jab is tonight and my wife's tomorrow. However, still no plans to get on a plane for at least the next 8 months (we thought about Puerto Rico in July but decided against).

                      Annoyingly our money is tied up for another 6 weeks before we can switch it to 2022 bookings.

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                        Can't say I am considering travel abroad in the current setup, even a 'green' destination means two PCR test to add to cost and whilst it would be nice to see my hometown, friends and family, i am not desperate...

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                          Wild speculation warning, but since covid causes long term organ damage in a significant number of people that it infects (I've seen numbers between 20% and 70% reported for adults), is the policy of vaccinating older people first actually the wrong one and it would be more beneficial (in terms of preventing early death) to vaccinate a younger population as highest priority (or at least those most likely to catch and transmit the virus)? The reasoning being that the long term organ damage will impact lifespans to a greater extent than the immediate death rate of covid is (plus having health care costs managing it in the future, and quality of life impacts on the survivors).
                          I know that this is getting dangerously close to "well they were going to die soon anyway" territory. Plus I don't know if there's any idea of how any of the damage seen in covid survivors will play out. As I led with, wild speculation.

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                            Mrs Thistle got jabbed today. She had the Pfizer one. AND SHE GOT GIVEN A STICKER!

                            I didn't get given a sticker. *pouts*

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                              Stickers? My mate in Bristol got an #Igotmyshot badge with his.

                              In other news, Mrs G had her second Pfizer jab on Tuesday and has been feeling completely crap ever since then. Only Lemsip is helping her through it.

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                                Important reminder

                                https://twitter.com/PhDhurtBrain/status/1380217504908382214?s=19

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                                  My ex-wife had her second jab yesterday morning. She felt fine for a couple of hours when she got back, but then just felt overwhelmingly tired and went to bed at about 5pm. She woke up fine this morning and is going to work this afternoon. She's the most likely route of the virus into this house so it's kind of a relief, but I remain unvaccinated and I have to admit that the constant talk about blood clots and the like is starting to make me nervous.

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                                    My wife and I had our second jabs today and yesterday respectively. Only symptoms are sore arms. On the downside, we are seeing fewer and fewer masks being worn around the state, although we will personally maintain our mask-wearing for at least another year.

                                    Relatedly, we've both lost more than 20 pounds in weight by eating far more sensibly, with the exception of an Indian once a fortnight. This would help us if we still caught a variant.
                                    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 10-04-2021, 23:39.

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                                      I posted too soon. I'm still OK but my wife had a rough time yesterday: nausea, temperature, aches and pains. Different vaccines might explain it.

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                                        We've still not had our first jabs. Given that I'm back in one of our offices tomorrow (every Tuesday for a month, then back into the central London office twice a week after that) this is a source of worry.

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                                          Originally posted by Toby Gymshorts View Post
                                          We've still not had our first jabs. Given that I'm back in one of our offices tomorrow (every Tuesday for a month, then back into the central London office twice a week after that) this is a source of worry.
                                          https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/corona...s-vaccination/

                                          A white lie gets you booked in, they did not ask me for any proof. I'm guessing that a later appointment is more likely to see you not being refused.

                                          As the priority is to vaccinate all of the adult population they are only going to refuse if there is a vaccine shortage imho.

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                                            Ta, Antepli Ejderha. I may just resort to that. My employer is springing for weekly testing, so that's something I suppose.

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                                              We've just spoken to a GP friend who said that GP practices have received a letter telling them not to offer any new first doses and to concentrate on giving second doses for the next two weeks due to supply issues.

                                              Hopefully this doesn't affect too many people on here.

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                                                "We've still not had our first jabs. Given that I'm back in one of our offices tomorrow (every Tuesday for a month, then back into the central London office twice a week after that) this is a source of worry" .

                                                Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post

                                                https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/corona...s-vaccination/

                                                A white lie gets you booked in, they did not ask me for any proof. I'm guessing that a later appointment is more likely to see you not being refused.

                                                As the priority is to vaccinate all of the adult population they are only going to refuse if there is a vaccine shortage imho.

                                                I'm sorry, I just don't agree with this. Why would you want to spring in front of warehouseworkers and supermarket staff who are older than you, and who have been working face to face with people through this for 18 months?

                                                Where I work, the office staff mostly work from home. Those that can't, or have to come in occasionally are superbly protected and isolated.

                                                The same really can't be said for the warehouse workers or drivers. Not because of any particular malice on behalf of our employers who actually do their best, but because of the sheer numbers involved and the nature of the work.

                                                I thought the best thing about the vaccine roll out was it's egalitarian aspect. The thought that you can move yourself up the queue because you are better educated or informed, or Internet savvy isn't that appealing, but I suppose is bound to happen.

                                                Is Antepli's method of contacting the NHS website directly public knowledge available on all state provided information? Does everybody know that telling white lies might help?

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                                                  Good questions. I'm sure I don't have any meaningful response that will make you go "ah, yeah, alright then".

                                                  What I do have is a partner who is partially health-compromised who is terrified of me contracting the virus and passing it on to her. Partially health-compromised in her case means that she hasn't had her first jab either, despite probably being "deserving" of it (certainly more so than me, I guess) and perhaps I might encourage her to contact the NHS as per AE's suggestion to try to calm her somewhat. I'm sure that's selfish of me.

                                                  As for me, I'll wait my turn. I don't like the idea of being at large on public transport twice a week, but that's what's in my immediate future. I am probably somewhat less concerned than my partner, but only for my personal health - I am worried about her worrying, though.

                                                  Quite why I'm being told to come in to central London twice a week when my job doesn't necessarily require me to do so, is another question for another time.

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                                                    Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                                                    We've just spoken to a GP friend who said that GP practices have received a letter telling them not to offer any new first doses and to concentrate on giving second doses for the next two weeks due to supply issues.

                                                    Hopefully this doesn't affect too many people on here.
                                                    And in view of this I will definitely wait my turn.

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