Punjab Farmers Demonstrations

[gt3]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...riculture-laws

I have some skin in this game as some of my relatives are still farmers in the Punjab. With all respect to them, like many other small farmers across India, I can't see that they will have the wherewithal or financial acumen to be able to negotiate with buyers in a system that is probably as corrupt as most things are in India...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India

Nevertheless, I was heartened to hear reports of Sikh farmers setting up langar kitchens to feed anyone, including the police forces attacking them. May be a nil thread, but on the day that the changes to farming subsidies was announced here in the UK, it felt apropos.

[scratchmonkey]

It's also interesting to see that while there is some coverage of this specific demonstration, and the farmers getting hit with tear gas; yet there hasn't been much, if any, mainstream news coverage of the much larger strike that took place earlier:

http://www.industriall-union.org/ove...trike-in-india

One of the more frustrating things about this is that it becomes very hard to tell what's happening -- is the general strike being over-played by pro-union sources and that's why it's not showing up in the general media? Or is it deliberate or systemic bias against collective action in said media?

[wingco]

Solidarity with the Punjabi farmers. One of the saddest things I saw on my trip to India was somewhere on the freeway to Delhi; a farmer bringing produce into the city whose wagon had collapsed, perhaps under the groaning weight of the produce, or the ricketiness of his vehicle. Load shed all over the road. I remember thinking; you're fucked aren't you, you poor sod? No AA, no insurance for you. Maybe there's a structure in place I'm not aware of but I didn't get that impression from the fleeting glimpse I got of the guy's face.

And cool re the kitchens. Punjabis are front and centre in the fight against hunger in the UK. Saw them make regular visits to the Strand to set up tables and feed the hungry and homeless. Something that should be more widely known.

[Nefertiti2]

How does this play with the rest of Modi politics?

[ChrisJ]

gt3 Thanks for posting this, the US Election's occluded everything for me for too long. Are your relatives on the march? I reckon you're right; small farmers will soon get swallowed up and the social and environmental consequences will be awful.

It's also interesting to see that while there is some coverage of this specific demonstration, and the farmers getting hit with tear gas; yet there hasn't been much, if any, mainstream news coverage of the much larger strike that took place earlier:

http://www.industriall-union.org/ove...trike-in-india

One of the more frustrating things about this is that it becomes very hard to tell what's happening -- is the general strike being over-played by pro-union sources and that's why it's not showing up in the general media? Or is it deliberate or systemic bias against collective action in said media?

Indian news media has always seemed to be incredibly conservative to me. Some of the right wing media is trying to portray this as fomented by Khalistani groups, but it feels like there's more sympathy for this protest perhaps because so many of the protesters are basically also ordinary small c conservative folk (as opposed to the nasty lefties involved in the industrial strike). There have also been big protests in W Bengal where the CPI(M) has a bigger presence I think.

It's always worth repeating what an utter **** Modi is and how disgustingly eager the Indian police are to use violence. I hope your family's OK, Gt3.

[ChrisJ]

How does this play with the rest of Modi politics?

Well Punjab is still Congress territory, but the laws are national so it looks like the usual cronyism, corruption and kleptocratic shit dressed up with the usual utterly fake concern economic liberalism expresses. ("Autonomy" for the small farmers.)

[Nefertiti2]

Maybe worth mentioning here that Ealing Council announced on Monday that a part of Havelock Road in Southall will be renamed 'Guru Nanak Road,

Havelock was a general involved in the Adghan and Sikh wars and the Indian Uprising or first Indian War of Independence- (in my school it was called the Indian Mutiny)


PS thanks ChrisJ. presumably there are sizeable numbers of Modi supporters who are farmers and will be affected

[Nefertiti2]

Tha magnificent Zarah Sultana

https://twitter.com/zarahsultana/status/1333518433779068928?s=20

[gt3]

Maybe worth mentioning here that Ealing Council announced on Monday that a part of Havelock Road in Southall will be renamed 'Guru Nanak Road,

Today is Guruparab, birthday of Guru Nanak Devji , the founding father of Sikhism.

I don't agree with re-naming roads, taking down statutes etc. What i think would have been more effective is a plaque next to the road sign explaining who Havelock was and also a sign explaining who Guru Nanak was and what he means in the history of Sikhism and India. Having said that, big props to Southall, though given the time that there's been a Sikh community in the area, why has it taken this long?

It's always worth repeating what an utter **** Modi is and how disgustingly eager the Indian police are to use violence. I hope your family's OK, Gt3.

thanks ChrisJ ...will take the temperature when i next speak to my parents who have a more direct line of contact with Punjab than I do. And yes, your sentiments re Mo*di and the Indian police are seconded at gt3 towers.

[gt3]

And cool re the kitchens. Punjabis are front and centre in the fight against hunger in the UK. Saw them make regular visits to the Strand to set up tables and feed the hungry and homeless. Something that should be more widely known.

wingco, not all Punjabis are Sikh. What you probably saw was the Sikh Welfare and Awareness Team (SWAT) https://www.theguardian.com/food/201...-feed-homeless

[Nefertiti2]

Today is Guruparab, birthday of Guru Nanak Devji , the founding father of Sikhism.

I don't agree with re-naming roads, taking down statutes etc. What i think would have been more effective is a plaque next to the road sign explaining who Havelock was and also a sign explaining who Guru Nanak was and what he means in the history of Sikhism and India. Having said that, big props to Southall, though given the time that there's been a Sikh community in the area, why has it taken this long?



thanks ChrisJ ...will take the temperature when i next speak to my parents who have a more direct line of contact with Punjab than I do. And yes, your sentiments re Mo*di and the Indian police are seconded at gt3 towers.

Personally I'm glad that the Berlin street known as Stadionallee - Stadium Boulevard was renamed Jesse-Owens-Allee, and that the various streets named after Adolf Hitler have been renamed. it just has taken Britain longer to face up to the issues.

Are you really saying they shouldn't rename streets but why has it taken so long? (maybe those two elements are connected.)

[gt3]

Are you really saying they shouldn't rename streets but why has it taken so long? (maybe those two elements are connected.)

Nef - yes. as, someone who once lived in Bristol at the top of Whiteladies Road, just around the corner from Blackboy Hill when the then Tory local authority wanted to rename those roads, and as someone who fought successfully against that, I don't agree with renaming roads/places. They just need contextualising in situ. But that's a whole different thread.

And yeah, is Ealing Council looking for for some kinda medal? What took them this long? Have they only just noticed that there's a big Sikh community in Southall..so yes, my response to the renaming of Havelock Road is yes, well done, but ultimately meh. Yet more virtue signalling.

[Nefertiti2]

maybe they it took a while to get the pro- Havelock, anti- name changing Sikhs on side. And I don't think they're asking for a medal. They've changed the name of the main road in Southall from commemorating colonialist general who killed a lot of Sikhs, to commemorating Guru Nanak. Why so grudging?

Don't want to derail the thread any longer. Thanks for your original post.

[Nefertiti2]

this piece about filmmaker Anand Patwardhan and his latest documentary Reason seems to belong here.

“Reason” is structured around the murders of four Indian activists, all of whom appear to have been targeted for their resistance to Hindu orthodoxy in some way. Narendra Dabholkar, a former physician, campaigned against regressive Hindu superstitions in villages; Gauri Lankesh, a journalist, was a vocal critic of the B.J.P.; M.M. Kalburgi was a scholar who had spoken out against the practice of worshiping Hindu idols. All three were shot point-blank with the same caliber pistol; the shooters, in all three cases, were men who were seen escaping on motorcycles. But the heart of “Reason” is Govind Pansare, a lawyer and communist intellectual, who was assassinated early one morning in February 2015.

Pansare had been active in progressive movements against caste and other discriminatory Hindu practices in the western state Maharashtra. Patwardhan first met Pansare in Mumbai, when he stopped the police from disrupting the screening of a documentary on Kashmir. “The next time I heard about him,” he told me, “was after his death.” The brazenness with which Pansare was murdered — he and his wife were shot outside their home, again by men on a motorcycle — had convinced Patwardhan to start working on “Reason”: “I knew right away I had to make a film.”

[gt3]

maybe they it took a while to get the pro- Havelock, anti- name changing Sikhs on side

Can't imagine there are many pro-Havelock Sikhs around Nef. ICan you point to how Ealing has had to change Sikhs minds or is that simply a supposition on your part? I have simply expressed an opinion based upon my experience about re-naming. As I said above:

Nef - yes. as, someone who once lived in Bristol at the top of Whiteladies Road, just around the corner from Blackboy Hill when the then Tory local authority wanted to rename those roads, and as someone who fought successfully against that, I don't agree with renaming roads/places. They just need contextualising in situ. But that's a whole different thread.

So you see , it's not grudging. It comes from personal experience. Yes, I'm happy for the citizens to wonder who Guru Nanak was. But is that appropriate at the expense of those same citizens not being confronted with who Havelock was?

[Nefertiti2]

You see I don’t think British people ever wonder who a Havelock, or a Codrigton, or a Beckford or a Colston are. I think they just thin those are the kinds of names roads have. The fact that they are usually named after slave owners or soldiers of Empire or both shows how deeply ingrained the racism and imperialism is in British society. I’d rename every single street.

my father came from Germany. They no longer have Adolf Hitler Platz or Hermann Goerring school, And gradually streets named after other racists collaborations with the Nazi regime
or earlier colonialists are being renamed too. I think it’s great. I
somt know why you’d leave a name like Havelock which is just unthinkably accepted by most English people

If you could leave white ladies Road and Blackboy Hill if you want. (whiteladies Road probably isn’t slave derived and Black Boy hill probably is-) But there is no doubt that the juxtaposition makes one think about slavery and the history of the city)

[Sporting]

Similar to how Franco-era names are gradually (but too slowly) being changed in Spain.

[Sporting]

[Nef, do you ever sleep?]

[gt3]

whiteladies Road probably isn’t slave derived and Black Boy hill probably is

Whiteladies Road was so named as it was the bit of road the white ladies would promenade up and down. But they weren't supposed to go up on to Black Boy Hill where the slave market was. The Black Boy Inn nearby still had the chains in the cellar where the slaves were kept for the sale.

Anyway, Nef and I are in danger of derailing this thread. Perhaps take this to another thread?

[scratchmonkey]

Getting back to the original post, this is an interesting article, with some interesting context about how the general strike relates to India's Communist parties:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/12/g...-bjp-cpm-bihar

[ChrisJ]

Getting back to the original post, this is an interesting article, with some interesting context about how the general strike relates to India's Communist parties:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/12/g...-bjp-cpm-bihar

Thanks for that. I had a lot of fascinating and perceptive things to contribute, honest, but that article says more, better.

The Indian Agriculture minister is now claiming that the Minimum Support Price will be untouched, but even if that were the case (yeah, right), the system is far from effective.

Reports of protests in Bihar, Gujerat and Rajasthan which are Modi strongholds. Plus, Monty Panesar supports the protests.

[Nefertiti2]

https://twitter.com/_jackhy/status/1334622760371417090?s=20

1) not too well at the moment Sporting
2) started a new thread, gt3

[gt3]

Getting back to the original post, this is an interesting article, with some interesting context about how the general strike relates to India's Communist parties:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/12/g...-bjp-cpm-bihar

Thanks for that scratchmonkey, really interesting article, and Nefertiti2 - that's a crazy statistic. Hoping to speak to my parents today to check in and ask if they've heard anything from the family.

[Nefertiti2]

I hope your family are OK, gt3.
And hope you don't mind,if this thread becomes a repository for discussion of Indian politics in general and Modi in particular

prompted by the censorship of this poem by Twitter India.

https://twitter.com/PriyamvadaGopal/status/1335805537066205184?s=20

[gt3]

I hope your family are OK, gt3.
And hope you don't mind,if this thread becomes a repository for discussion of Indian politics in general and Modi in particular

prompted by the censorship of this poem by Twitter India.

https://twitter.com/PriyamvadaGopal/status/1335805537066205184?s=20

Thanks Nef - yup, checked in with my parents the other day and all are good back in Mother India.

More than happy to have the thread diverted to cover Indian politics/M*di. Will think about a new thread title. And thank you for linking to that poem.