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When Is Celebration Of a Person's Death or Illness Appropriate?

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    When Is Celebration Of a Person's Death or Illness Appropriate?

    This thread is not about one specific person but is rather to gather opinions on where the threshold lies. The reply 'Never' seems too extreme because it would mean not celebrating the deaths of Hitler, Stalin, Sergio Ramos or Richard Keys. The reply 'Sometimes' forces you to draw a line. I suppose it depends how the person's life impacted you personally, which is why Thatcher is an obvious one and Boris Johnson would be for anyone who gets their livelihood destroyed by Brexit or COVID mismanagement. Another line could be the likelihood they carried out a crime, notably rape, whilst another obvious one is egregious racism or incitement to racial violence. An exceptional case might be someone dying from an event they caused, denied or inflicted on others, such as a cigarette manufacturer dying of lung cancer.

    A related question is timing. Do you celebrate on the day or give it a couple of weeks/months/years?

    How public should be your celebration? Only do it under a pseudonym on a forum like OTF or under your real name on Facebook or even at work?

    Finally, should 'celebration' be replaced by something modest such as a smile of relief or just glad that we can move on to the next chapter of history?
    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 03-10-2020, 10:45.

    #2
    I'd rather ask "What good is it to celebrate someone's death?" For people in public positions, especially politicians, I think the answer is very little, and it's usually counterproductive unless it was actually a "history's greatest monster" type. For anyone else, knock yourself out if it lifts your mood, and I wouldn't judge. But it's worth asking what's to be gained.

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      #3
      I often break out the Mark Twain quote.

      ”I do not wish any human being dead. I will, however, read certain obituaries with great pleasure.”

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        #4
        Of course for a lot of people death's too good.

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          #5
          I don't have the thing about its being a terrible thing to celebrate a death, as a hard principle like. I don't think that every death diminishes us. I think that's partly because, you know, death is just an ordinary everyday part of life. But there's more to it than that.

          "How public?" is a good question. Depends on how much you want to cheer others up, how much you want to upset others, how much you want to risk disapprobation or even sanctions. Thatcher was a bit of a perfect storm on that one - you could cheer people you wanted to cheer, make some who really deserved it very upset and angry, and there was no real risk.

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            #6
            If their death might mean sparing the lives of countless others - again, no real life examples here - then I might quietly do a small, private cheer.

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              #7

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                #8
                I got my first diss as a sanctimonious twat for posting an elongated version of the above

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                  #9
                  I tend to think of less of people who enthusiastically celebrate a death. Any death, really. There are lots of thoroughly deserved ones and those which will benefit deserving others, but I don't like to see public displays of joy at the event.

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                    #10
                    I think one should ponder whether one genuinely feels happy or relieved, or whether it's being performative or malicious (wanting to dig at the people who are unhappy about it).

                    I went to the Thatcher celebration in Trafalgar Square, to be counted amongst those who hated everything she stood for. I wouldn't laugh in Carol Thatcher's face about her mother's death.

                    I couldn't care less about Trump, and he wouldn't be nice about me if he knew of my existence. I want the outcome that's best for the US. Meanwhile, I don't feel bad making the odd joke about Melania wanting him dead.

                    Kelvin MacKenzie, of all people, is piously calling people "disgusting" for being unsympathetic to Trump.

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                      #11
                      It's sometimes one, sometimes the other, and sometimes both. I'm good with that.

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                        #12
                        There's certain people who make the world a significantly worse place just by existing. I don't really do public celebration of anything these days, but if Trump dies I'll punch the air and give out a yes, definitely.

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                          #13
                          I like the thing off The Bugle podcast of a Fuckyoulogy

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                            #14
                            I'm kind of with WOM on this (except that I think there clearly are many real life examples). I think there's a slippery slope point to endorsing celebration of any death, given the continuity of the bad end of the morality spectrum from psychopathically evil through to politically not quite one's cup of tea.

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                              #15
                              If Trump dies there's a considerable downside (I want him to be crushed at an election and then go to jail) just as there was a considerable downside to Milosevic's death. But humanity as a whole will not be diminished by his death, in fact the opposite. So, yes, I'll raise a glass or two

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                                #16
                                https://twitter.com/NotNikyatu/status/1312178081319153665

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                  I like the thing off The Bugle podcast of a Fuckyoulogy
                                  That's fantastic. I'd have gone with obitchuary myself but maybe that's why I don't have a podcast.

                                  I'm firmly in the "cackle to myself, crack a few private jokes" camp. There is something especially satisfying in ad hoc's "watch them suffer while they're still alive" point of view. Bear the consequences of your actions and all that.

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    If Trump dies there's a considerable downside (I want him to be crushed at an election and then go to jail) just as there was a considerable downside to Milosevic's death. But humanity as a whole will not be diminished by his death, in fact the opposite. So, yes, I'll raise a glass or two
                                    I was thinking about this.

                                    It’s a real loss when these people don’t face a proper trial or, really, any consequences for their actions, which is usually the case, especially if they were a leader of a fairly stable wealthy country like the US.


                                    To some extent, that may be ok. We really don’t want to set a precedent where the new president/PM prosecutes the previous one. It would quickly turn political and I don’t know how it could be made fair and impartial.

                                    But we could really use a proper international justice system that could try people like Bin Laden as well as Kissinger. But the US, among others - well, maybe it’s mostly us - won’t allow that. That’s a tragedy. They’re cannot be peace without justice and their won’t be justice without law.

                                    A lot of democrats were proud that “Obama killed Bin Laden.” I wasn’t. Maybe it wasn’t really possible to capture him, but I don’t think we tried at all. Sending him to The Hague would have been way better.

                                    Same with Hitler.

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                                      #19
                                      I reckon we show the same grace and courtesy to a person when they die that they showed to others. In Trump's case he has publicly slandered anyone who has come across his path and been gleeful about their misfortunes. So I actively hope the fucker chokes to death on his virus addled bronchial tissue.

                                      I wouldn't bother joining a queue to piss on his grave. I have better things to do with my time.

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                                        #20
                                        Yeah I'd rather not have to queue to take a piss.

                                        There's also the performative nature of sanctimony to take into account.

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                          This thread is not about one specific person...
                                          Aye, right-o...

                                          Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                          If Trump dies there's a considerable downside (I want him to be crushed at an election and then go to jail) just as there was a considerable downside to Milosevic's death. But humanity as a whole will not be diminished by his death, in fact the opposite. So, yes, I'll raise a glass or two
                                          But we all know that neither of those things will happen to him, so...

                                          Trump is 74 years old and has persistently got away with being a charlatan, a misanthropist and a criminal for most of that time. In short, he’s already had an undeserved run - and I’m being polite here. I’ll not apologise for feeling zero sympathy whatsoever.

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                                            #22
                                            I was always looking forwards to celebrating Thatcher's demise but when it happened it was somewhst anticlimactic.

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                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by TonTon View Post
                                              There's also the performative nature of sanctimony to take into account.
                                              Yep. There's also the weakness of "taking the high road" against opponents who cannot stoop low enough to gain an advantage. We have seen how the people who fight dirty have consistently won over the past 5 years or so and I'm done with it. Trump et al expect their opponents to "play fair" and be the better person and then exploit that weakness by playing dirty. We need to get smarter about dirty warfare and develop our own tactics.

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                                                #24
                                                The death of somebody like that is a tragedy because it represents another wasted life.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Sporting View Post
                                                  I was always looking forwards to celebrating Thatcher's demise but when it happened it was somewhst anticlimactic.
                                                  It came way too late to be great. Even ten years earlier would have been so much better. Still, my mum got to enjoy the moment, and have a couple of years afterwards, so yeah.

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