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    Trayvon Martin

    I'm a bit surprised that this story hasn't gotten more coverage in the UK, given that it illustrates much of what is pathologically wrong with the US in general and Florida in particular.

    None of that, of course, will bring a promising kid whose only crime was Walking When Black back to life.

    A useful primer.

    And some depressing precedents.

    #2
    Trayvon Martin

    I signed the petition on this on Facebook. Apparently, there is going to be some sort of inquiry. But yes, a truly dreadful story, given roughly five seconds of coverage on Fox News, incidentally. (And, indeed, not much in the UK - one of those stories I only became aware of thanks to social networks).

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      #3
      Trayvon Martin

      Whereas I heard about it on the Beeb this evening. Sounds terrible, but to change the question round, why should we in the UK care about standard appalling US behaviour?

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        #4
        Trayvon Martin

        Ta-Nehisi Coates has been very good on this topic for the past few weeks.

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          #5
          Trayvon Martin

          Gangster Octopus wrote:
          Whereas I heard about it on the Beeb this evening. Sounds terrible, but to change the question round, why should we in the UK care about standard appalling US behaviour?
          No one's asking you to care, but the UK chattering classes fucking love them some fucked up Americana. Hence why ursus is surprised this utterly execrable example is not getting more play.

          I have friends who, in all honesty, care more about what Rush Limbaugh does than what David Cameron does. Even though what David Cameron does affects their lives more.

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            #6
            Trayvon Martin

            Yeah, that's sort of what I'm talking about.

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              #7
              Trayvon Martin

              By the way, 'care' is obviously the wrong word.

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                #8
                Trayvon Martin

                In what way?

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                  #9
                  Trayvon Martin

                  I care in the way that I care when anything horrible happens to anyone even if I don't know them, so it's not like I'm don't give a shit about the poor lad.

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                    #10
                    Trayvon Martin

                    GO, this is an extreme case that it is genuinely difficult for me to see playing out in the UK within a generation, but I do think that British politics of the last 30 years or so has been marked by a process of Americanization that is quite apparent to those of us who are familiar with what's happened here.

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                      #11
                      Trayvon Martin

                      Have there been any places which haven't been affected by Americanization?

                      I do think the UK is worse than others - it seems to get internalized so, so quickly here. My perception is the Dutch, while being fascinated by American culture and having virtually no language barrier (I have run into several Dutch people with pitch-perfect American accents honed by television), have still kept their culture recognisably Dutch. Which is impressive considering their proximity and language skills.

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                        #12
                        Trayvon Martin

                        In terms of politics and policy, I think that the process of Americanization is more advanced in the UK than anywhere else, even including Canada.

                        There's a lot of "cross border" activity among consultants, think tanks and the like that started with Thatcher, but increased significantly under Blair.

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                          #13
                          Trayvon Martin

                          I would not be surprised. Transatlantic cooperation seems to be even more important than European cooperation, and I think the Canadian people wouldn't tolerate being too politically similar to America.

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                            #14
                            Trayvon Martin

                            I think it's very common for us to think "I'm not sure what I want, but I don't want that" whilst nodding south. It probably gives us a good comparative starting point. I mean, we bleat about the price of beer and gasoline, but we like our health care system. I think we see the tradeoffs for what they are.

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                              #15
                              Trayvon Martin

                              You've got that lyric wrong, WOM: it's "I would do anything for love".

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                                #16
                                Trayvon Martin

                                Guns and gated communities leading to vigilante actions, I think this is going to happen more and more.

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                                  #17
                                  Trayvon Martin

                                  This really is getting into "possession of curly black hair and thick lips" territory, isn't it?

                                  I am not surprised. Having spent a fair amount of time there away from all the Disney stuff, I realised that Florida is still the South and just as populated by crackers and rednecks. Our friends who live there threw a fancy dress party and some native Floridian friends of theirs came dressed with the husband in a KKK outfit and the wife blacked up. Those gated communities are a nightmare as well, they are like something out of apartheid South Africa.

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                                    #18
                                    Trayvon Martin

                                    I would have guessed George Zimmerman to be of other than redneck stock; indeed, not of stock likely to be popular with rednecks. And from what I've just googled, I'm right, but in an unexpected way: Zimmerman's family descrobe him as "Hispanic".

                                    This may be more culturally complicated than it looks, in other words. No doubt Florida's Old Southernness has to do with why Zimmerman was set to get away with the deed, but it may not have underlain the deed itself.

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                                      #19
                                      Trayvon Martin

                                      Yes, that was what I was getting at. Isn't the possibility of him getting away with this more noteworthy than the initial incident, although, of course, both elements are truly horrendous

                                      I would have thought and it's been shown that the shooting of innocent black youths is fairly common in the US

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                                        #20
                                        Trayvon Martin

                                        As GO said , the Beeb did quite a long stint on the News last night around it.
                                        Sounded bloody awful, and made me cringe around all those vigilante leaning/Neighbourhood Watch schemes that pop up.

                                        While,in the shadow of the Toulouse shootings, here in France, a couple of the communities (I forget where; but the Rhone Alpes stick in my mind) -"inspired they say by the wonderful schemes in the US"- are planning to do just that in France -
                                        I am looking forward to the "Fête de musique", and especially New Years Eve and seeing the plot unfold.

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                                          #21
                                          Trayvon Martin

                                          ursus arctos wrote:
                                          In terms of politics and policy, I think that the process of Americanization is more advanced in the UK than anywhere else, even including Canada.

                                          There's a lot of "cross border" activity among consultants, think tanks and the like that started with Thatcher, but increased significantly under Blair.
                                          Do you think that will wane or increase with the economic rise of China?

                                          Will America withdraw back into itself and become isolationist itself or will it become increasingly protective of its interests within its economic theatre/empire of influence?

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                                            #22
                                            Trayvon Martin

                                            There's Liverpool Football Club and then there's Miami Heat

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                                              #23
                                              Trayvon Martin

                                              Indeed, Zimmerman is not the interesting character. From what I gather, he's a fringe paranoid type. We'll probably always have at least a few of those. The scary aspect is the reaction of the local police and how gun nuts and assorted Fox News assholes have tried to defend him.

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                                                #24
                                                Trayvon Martin

                                                Trayvon Martin's father detailed what the Sanford police told him about his son's killing:

                                                According to Tracy Martin, the Sanford, Fla., detective recounted this sequence of events: Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window. Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle.

                                                Then came the second encounter, according to Tracy Martin’s recollection of the detective’s account. Trayvon Martin appeared from behind a building in Zimmerman’s gated community, approached him and demanded, “What’s your problem, homie?”

                                                When Zimmerman replied that he didn’t have a problem, Martin said, “You do now.” The unarmed teenager hit Zimmerman, knocked him to the ground, pinned him down and told him to “shut the [expletive] up.”

                                                During the beating, Zimmerman pulled his gun and fired one shot at close range into Martin’s chest. “You got me,” the teenager said, falling backward.
                                                Maybe it's because it was told from Zimmerman to the police (and who knows how many investigators), to Tracy Martin, but that story seems like something out of a bad TV show. "What's your problem, homie?"? "You got me" after being shot? Give me a fucking break.

                                                Zimmerman's father had this to say:

                                                After nearly a minute of being beaten, George was trying to get his head off the concrete, trying to move with Trayvon on him, into the grass. In doing so, his firearm was shown. Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of 'you're going to die now or you're going to die tonight,' something to that effect. He continued to beat George and at some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did.
                                                Zimmerman and his father claim that Martin jumped on top of Zimmerman and punched him, broke his nose, and slammed his head into concrete. Video of him going into the Sanford police station shows that he looks pretty good for having supposedly suffered such a violent beating.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Trayvon Martin

                                                  Zimmerman's now former lawyers are holding a bizarre press conference now. Richard Adams of the Guardian has written:

                                                  I've heard of "car crash" press conferences. This is a "Titanic hits iceberg" press conference.
                                                  edit: they're yelling at reporters now!

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