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Statues to racists and slaveowners

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    Even 100 days would be good.With the added bonus that she won't be covered in birdshit like Eddie Colston was

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      Long but fascinating piece on the Confederate monument in Savannah

      https://www.bonniebluetours.com/blog...-that-monument

      There is a monument to Maj. Gen. Nathanael Greene, who fought in the Revolutionary War; the cornerstone was laid originally, and honored in a speech by Lafayette, in 1825. However, less known is that Greene owned slaves gifted to him for his service

      https://georgiahistory.com/marker-mo...ve-plantation/




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        Great stuff, Satchmo

        And I now know for certain what tour company I will use when I visit Savannah
        Last edited by ursus arctos; 16-07-2020, 01:27.

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          This article by her is even better

          https://www.bonniebluetours.com/blog.../14/ebolanding

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            Excellent. Many thanks

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              Satchmo, Kemp is trying to overturn the local mask rules.

              Have you seen any evidence of that in Savannah?

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                I spent a few days in Savannah and liked it a lot. I think it believes its own mythology about charming eccentricity just a little too much, hanging on to that Garden of Good and Evil stuff. And the fact that Sherman didn't burn it on his march to the sea so they think they're not quite as tainted with Confederacy stuff.

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                  Well, when the competition is Stone Mountain and the Gone With the Wind industrial complex (or the Charleston slave markets) that isn't a hard barrier to slip under (and, as Satchmo's links make clear, they have some basis for their belief.

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                    Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                    Even 100 days would be good.With the added bonus that she won't be covered in birdshit like Eddie Colston was
                    Only made 24 hours, a disgraceful decision to take it down.

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                      I'm not sure it was. It's a great statue, and I'd be happy for it to be the one chosen to stay there, but that should be a decision for the community to make, not a white artist.

                      Shropshire Council have voted to keep the Clive statue.

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                        Ursus, I know that Kemp is talking about a legal challenge but I have not seen evidence of the city authorities caving. The mask requirement posters are up on walls around the city and cannot be missed.

                        https://www.savannahga.gov/ImageRepo...cumentId=19747

                        https://www.blufftontoday.com/news/20200715/mayor-warns-savannah-businesses-to-mask-up-or-shut-down

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                          Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                          I spent a few days in Savannah and liked it a lot. I think it believes its own mythology about charming eccentricity just a little too much, hanging on to that Garden of Good and Evil stuff. And the fact that Sherman didn't burn it on his march to the sea so they think they're not quite as tainted with Confederacy stuff.
                          It's more ambiguous. The free slaves who set up their own community at Pin Point seem to have been left alone by the racist authorities in the main city, and maintained an African/Creole cultural tradition.

                          https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...eritage-museum

                          Then there's the fact that Johnny Mercer seems to have been able to mix with black kids when absorbing jazz influences. The confederacy commemoration was often melancholic rather than a celebration (see above), and in any case was often done in the 1900-1920s, as with Stone Mountain, which Savannah appears to have avoided. Economically, Savannah profited hugely from slavery as the place where cotton and rice were processed and shipped but the plantations themselves were outside the city.

                          A parallel with New Orleans could be made, in how the cities related to slavery. Neither was entirely absorbed into the South with no rough edges and opportunities for ambiguity, I'd argue.
                          Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 16-07-2020, 18:50.

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                            Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                            I'm not sure it was. It's a great statue, and I'd be happy for it to be the one chosen to stay there, but that should be a decision for the community to make, not a white artist.

                            Shropshire Council have voted to keep the Clive statue.
                            I was under the impression that the community had decided this and didn't realise that wasn't the case.

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                              No, it was basically a guerilla installation (which I have no problem with).

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                                George Washington is supposed to have been ambivalent about slavery but he visited Greene's Mulberry Grove slave plantation during his 1791 southern tour. He also discussed with Georgia's Governor the issue of fugitive slaves escaping into Spanish Florida. Then he went home to his own plantation.

                                https://georgiahistory.com/marker-mo...southern-tour/

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                                  The RAF have removed the memorial to Nigger, the Dambusters' black labrador. It's not like the dog chose his name.

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                                    Jesus Christ. I know he had been edited back in the film. The best solution is to take all statues down starting with the ones that have sprung up outside football grounds in the last 20 years which I find so tacky. Most of the civic ones are Victorian tat which most people don't know about so they wouldn't be missed.

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                                      Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                                      I'm not sure it was. It's a great statue, and I'd be happy for it to be the one chosen to stay there, but that should be a decision for the community to make, not a white artist.

                                      Shropshire Council have voted to keep the Clive statue.
                                      Indeed. And how will that community spirit be expressed? An online poll, or just nod through in the Council? Personalising it to Dudley or the Brownhills of Aldridge rather than Etienne's neighbors, I can imagine the result in either case. We know 71% voted for this ever more hard right Toryism and can assume almost all of them understand it.

                                      So, fuck them really and more guerrilla gigs please
                                      Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 17-07-2020, 08:58.

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                                        One of my friends works for the arts company who constructed that temporary statue. Even they didn't know exactly what the plan was. It was just on the books as "the Bristol project". "Leave that job for now, we need to finish the Bristol project".

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                                          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                          George Washington is supposed to have been ambivalent about slavery but he visited Greene's Mulberry Grove slave plantation during his 1791 southern tour. He also discussed with Georgia's Governor the issue of fugitive slaves escaping into Spanish Florida. Then he went home to his own plantation.

                                          https://georgiahistory.com/marker-mo...southern-tour/
                                          Most of those guys were ambivalent about it, or so they said. They imagined it would have to go away eventually, but not yet. They thought Black people needed slavery for their own benefit. They treated the people that worked for them the way an organic dairy farmer treats cows - some compassion, but not too much. Jefferson obviously went a bit further.

                                          It’s one more thing that confirms my suspicion that all ideology is just a post hoc justification for doing what one wants to do anyway, usually to gain status or material comfort.

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                                            Sometimes ideology justifies doing things that (on the face of it) no one in their right mind would want to do.

                                            like go on hunger strike. Or spend six months in a nuclear submarine. Or die.

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                                              Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                                              Shropshire Council have voted to keep the Clive statue.
                                              Hardly surprising, where else are pissed up revellers going to put traffic cones?

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                                                Nathan Bedford Forrest, first KKK Grand Wizard

                                                https://www.wsmv.com/news/davidson_c...603930c06.html

                                                https://www.tennessean.com/story/new...te/5399801002/

                                                https://tnstateparks.com/parks/nathan-bedford-forrest

                                                https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...forrest-statue

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                                                  A statue of singer Kate Smith was removed last year due to her racist repertoire:

                                                  https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/21/us/ph...tue/index.html

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                                                    Will Rogers

                                                    https://www.aoc.gov/explore-capitol-...rt/will-rogers

                                                    Rogers frequently used the n-word in NBC radio broadcasts, prompting a complaint from the NAACP.

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