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    Statues to racists and slaveowners

    one less today

    Colston falls

    https://twitter.com/_jackgrey/status/1269625428400132096?s=20

    #2
    Robert E Lee

    https://twitter.com/Browe05USA/status/1269632475740987392?s=20

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      #3
      That's a well thought out act of protest.

      edit: Nefertiti2

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        #4
        Well the Washington monument had best come down then, and the USA is going to need to come up with a new name for its capital

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          #5
          Richmond about to blow up, communication failed...

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            #6
            Frank Rizzo in Philly
            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9547221.html

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              #7
              The guys kneeling on the Colston statues neck was very powerful.

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                #8
                https://twitter.com/analuciaraujo_/status/1269584951399403524?s=21

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                  #9
                  TG, beat me to it

                  An especially egregious example given the fact that his horrible crimes were so recent

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...ts/2020/06/03/

                  I was surprised to learn that there is no statue of a Richard Daley in Chicago, though there is one in the state capitol in Springfield

                  https://news.wttw.com/2016/01/27/ask...ey-springfield

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                    #10
                    Where Colston. Ended

                    https://twitter.com/boringdystopian/status/1269643323532292096?s=21

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                      #11
                      I love that they chucked him in the river.

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                        #12
                        This is extraoridinary

                        https://twitter.com/ProfDaveAndress/status/1269648143194492931?s=20

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                          #13
                          [URL="https://twitter.com/MrsAlghrani/status/1269641107123683328"]https://twitter.com/MrsAlghrani/stat...41107123683328[/URL]

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                            #14
                            Fort Myers, Lee County, FL:

                            https://www.winknews.com/2020/06/02/...al-naacp-says/

                            https://www.news-press.com/story/new...st/5316700002/

                            [URL]https://twitter.com/winknews/status/1269079057112547330[/URL]

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                              #15
                              Not a statue, but there are a number of GAA clubs in both Ireland and UK named after John Mitchel - because of his Fenian background, of course, but in recent years, embarrassing reminders of his support for both the Confederacy and slavery have re-emerged:

                              https://www.historyireland.com/18th-...y-and-slavery/

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                                #16
                                Belgium

                                https://twitter.com/jackeparrock/status/1269656961693421568?s=21

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                                  #17
                                  About the removal of the auction block in Virginia. I'm not close to this, so don't know the details (and the Washington Post article is paywalled), but is this a good thing that it is being removed, or an example of something that should be allowed to remain as a reminder of a shameful past?

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                                    #18
                                    The crowd are chanting "reparations" not "murderer" in that Brussels clip.

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                                      #19
                                      I think I mentioned this in the past, but Penny Lane in Liverpool was named after a Liverpool MP, in thanks for his tireless defence of slavery. It should be renamed, but won't be for obvious reasons.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Fussbudget View Post
                                        The crowd are chanting "reparations" not "murderer" in that Brussels clip.
                                        Yes I thought that was wrong.

                                        Adam Hochschild's book King Leopold's Ghost about the Congo is fantastic

                                        this story about another statue in Ostend is astonishing

                                        one of the most effective interventions I've ever seen
                                        Last edited by Nefertiti2; 07-06-2020, 17:53.

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by S. aureus View Post
                                          About the removal of the auction block in Virginia. I'm not close to this, so don't know the details (and the Washington Post article is paywalled), but is this a good thing that it is being removed, or an example of something that should be allowed to remain as a reminder of a shameful past?
                                          I have some friends who live in an intentional community in Richmond near the slave auction place and they do tours of the area to discuss the horrible past (and somewhat horrible present) of the area. The general thinking is that it should be at least commemorated somehow and not built over. Besides, who would want to own or work in a building always having to think about that?

                                          As I recall, that is where they were thinking of building the minor league baseball stadium A few years ago, but then they decided to pick a different site for the Flying Squirrels (who are AA. Richmond preciously has the AAA Braves. So that’s an improvement in terms of racists mascots but a downgrade in baseball). But my understanding is that they picked a different site because the neighbors didn’t want the traffic and noise at night, not because the land was considered sacred somehow.


                                          My alma mater is dealing with this, but I think the statue of Jefferson and other colonial-era figures will remain for now.

                                          https://www.wm.edu/sites/enslavedmem...bout/index.php

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                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                            How do you pause it?

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                                              #23
                                              Bottom left corner: (thanks for that link Nef, by the way. It really is mind-boggling)

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                                                #24
                                                I would like to bring up an article about statues written by Simon Jenkins in the Evening Standard in 2017. The best bit I have put in bold and reflects my own views of the statues currently in Trafalgar Square and elsewhere.

                                                I am all for updating London’s statues. They litter the city as sad and neglected relics of former glories. They stand in parks and kerbsides, like Pompeiian citizens embalmed in their moment in history. No one really takes any notice of them until someone has nothing better to do than dig around for a skeleton in a hero’s cupboard.

                                                Then the statue shudders and starts to crumble before our eyes. Admiral Nelson was apparently a slavery-defender. So were William Gladstone and William Cobbett. Cromwell butchered Irish women. Palmerston starved peasants. Octavia Hill opposed votes for women. Bomber Harris was a mass murderer. Mrs Thatcher was not liked by lots of people. Keep this up, and we can make the Vatican Index and Stalin’s censors look like a bunch of liberals.

                                                The back-projection of morality is the darkest form of historical distortion. History’s virtue is that it encourages us to evolve our moral compass, but we can’t change history because of that. It is a stern tyrant.

                                                There is hardly a figure in British history about whom “questions” cannot be raised. Blaming Nelson for slavery is plain silly. He probably saved Britain from invasion by a pro-slavery Napoleon. He certainly cleared the high seas for Britain to suppress the slave trade when the time came to do so. For sure, his actions hastened slavery’s end.

                                                Nelson was also a philanderer and a rogue. As for his last words, “Kiss me Hardy,” there are those who choose to see him as a gay icon.

                                                So do we topple him for mistreating his wife or upsetting Emma Hamilton, or do we put his statue in Soho Square for kissing Hardy? But then I am sure one day someone will want to ban statues of anyone who voted for the Iraq war, denied climate change, put dodgy cladding on towers or ate meat. Such debate brings history, not Nelson, into disrespect.

                                                However, I am with the “uppers and downers” debate in accepting that statues are meant to signify. That is the point of them. They are intended as public memorials of past deeds, possibly controversial then as now. They were erected at a certain time and in a certain context. That context rightly stirs debate.

                                                The Charlottesville statue of General Lee, and others now being removed in the American South, was erected not after the Civil War but in the 20th century. Many of them appeared in the Sixties, not as memorials or celebrations but as political acts of defiance of black civil rights. They were not honouring great men who happened to support slavery. They were more like statues of Stalin in Ukraine, gestures of potency against a starving peasantry and now understandably removed.

                                                That some people want Lee removed, while others vehemently want him kept, shows the virility of statues. They can cause delight and dismay. That in turn shows the importance of negotiating their setting and status. I see no problem in moving General Lee to a museum, as was suggested by Bonnie Greer in an admirable BBC World Service debate on the statues this week. Museum is not suppression.

                                                Besides, I can hardly talk. Many years ago I campaigned to clear two inconsequential Indian imperial generals, Napier and Havelock, from Trafalgar Square. While Napier opposed slavery, he believed “the best way to quiet a country is a good thrashing”. Havelock merely suppressed the Indian mutiny. I had no problem with their politics, only with them being boring. Neither was significant or “relevant” today, and to leave them as architectural furniture was sad. This was the more so as Napier supplanted a statue of the justly celebrated hero Edward Jenner, inventor of the world’s first vaccine, for small pox. Bring back Jenner, I pleaded, from his “toppling” and banishment to Kensington Gardens.

                                                Statues are ways in which the community indicates those it wishes to salute in public. That implies some consensus and, in some cases, sensitivity. I could see why many South Africans found the Rhodes status at Cape Town university offensive, when it towered over students arriving each day at school. It was considerate to move it around the back. That is wholly different from the hysteria over the same man’s inconspicuous visage hidden in an Oriel College Oxford gable. There must be greater ills in the world about which students can protest. What bubble do they inhabit?

                                                Back in London the case for a statue clear-up is strong. Trafalgar Square should be for orators and agitators, as Parliament Square is for legislators, and the Embankment, if anywhere, is for generals. The present figure outside St Martin-in-the-Fields of George IV on a horse in Roman gear and without stirrups looks ridiculous. The square is also the wrong place for both Washington and James II.

                                                There is a desperate need for re-landscaping the mess that is Hyde Park Corner and Park Lane. There is a chaos of meaningless statues, some figurative, some abstract, many of them just memorials to the unknown lobbyist.

                                                Such clearing up is worth doing. But we have to accept there will be arguments. All capital cities are adorned with those who have made a serious contribution to their nation’s history. It would be a feeble place that could not ride with a bit of controversy. It would be like banning demonstrations and free speech. London is a diverse and sometimes offensive city. I would rather it was both than neither.

                                                I am all for updating London’s statues. They litter the city as sad and neglected relics of former glories. They stand in parks and kerbsides, like Pompeiian citizens embalmed in their moment in history. No one really takes any notice of them until someone has nothing better to do than dig around for a skeleton in a hero’s cupboard.?

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                                                  #25
                                                  Hero? They don't seem to have been NHS staff or key workers.

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