Best country to go on holiday to: the first debate; what's missing?

[Lobachevsky]

Madegasgar - sounds different and amazing

maldives - looks amazing and I’d learn to dive

malaysia - spent January cycling round the country and had a lovely time. Hospitable people, great food some lovely islands. It would be rude not to pick it.




mozambique - I am hoping the Zambezi runs through it and I’ve always wanted to explore that river. If I’m wrong they’ve got a cool flag.

montenegro. - got a mate from there and it sounds great

mexico - won over by scenes in race across the world.

[Stobart]

Madegasgar - sounds different and amazing

You're right. Madegasgar does sound different.

[S. aureus]

Female harassment around the world, my very limited experience:
Morocco was more or less as balders described - the oldest man in in our group had to fend off marriage offers for one of the women (it's been a while, but I think he could have scored a fairly substantial flock of goats).
I was told in Turkey that the only reason European girls visited Turkey was to have sex with Turkish men. Several Turkish men seemed fairly eager to live up to this notion, and were not always terribly accepting of rejection.
A gurkha asked a woman I was with in Belize to marry him, and there was definitely some leering going on.
I'm not a woman, so these are all second hand experiences and I'm sure that I missed a lot of stuff, only the more unusual or egregious examples would have come to my attention

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

We met a 50-something Canadian bloke in Varadero in Cuba who was good company in the beach bar for a couple of drinks, told us how he went there three or four times a year, gave us some tips about things to do and see in the resort. Then without batting an eyelid began explaining to me - and Signora Rogin, as though he just assumed that's why we BOTH must have been there - where the best clubs in Varadero were to go to find Cuban prostitutes, and what the local girls would do for Canadians with convertible pesos. First time I've ever come across sex tourism like that (never been to Thailand)

[Sam]

K
Madagascar looks amazing. I'm fascinated by how the first people arrived there (not, as you might suppose if you've not looked into it, from Africa, but from the Pacific islands), and the nature must be great.

Malaysia seems like it'd have good food, and plenty more going on.

Mali for the reasons given by VT and vv.

L
Mexico is just fucking brilliant. Huge variety of stuff to see and do, amazing landscapes, the food is ridiculous, and one of my best mates lives there. Plus Mexico City is one of those places that feels like its own self-contained universe. I found it enthralling. Had COVID-19 not happened and our trip to the UK this year not been postponed, we might well have been planning to visit him next year. A contender for the overall title, surely.

Mongolia just edges out Mozambique, I think.

Morocco is somewhere I've always fancied seeing.

[elguapo4]

A friend of mine was saved from probable rape outside Brussels train station by an English homeless ex squaddie, who insisted on sitting with her for protection until her train arrived, and wouldn't take a penny from her.

[Sam]

And yeah, Cuba is rife with that. My brother and I went dancing one night in Havana and two girls latched onto us before we'd even found a table. I wanted to practice my dancing (I'd been taking salsa classes for about a year), and it quickly became obvious that the only way to get 'my' girl to keep dancing with me was to let her think we were going to have a shag (or rather, that I was going to pay her to shag me) at the end of the night. It got quite annoying, and when we wanted to leave after a couple of hours the only way we could get them to not walk out of the place with us was by making up girlfriends back home (which, bizarrely, they seemed to be genuinely put out by). We didn't even get to the door before they'd turned round and started talking to another couple of foreign-looking guys.

When the landlady asked how it had gone the following morning I told her about it and said, 'I don't know whether they were prostitutes or what, it was really odd,' and she rolled her eyes and said, matter-of-factly but not in an unkind tone, that as foreigners with foreign currency in a country where everyone earns US$30 per month, almost any girl could be a prostitute.

My only second-hand-women's-travel comparative experience comes from our first trip to Europe, when we were walking around (I think) Prague when my girlfriend realised that in five weeks of our holiday to that point she hadn't been harassed once. And that time had included Christmas and New Year in England, so she'd been around some extremely drunk people.

[Sporting]

Fascinating (if depressing) accounts here; thanks all.

[slackster]

Mrs Slacks also reports Morocco as the place she's been pestered/harassed most. Having said that, in Marrakech in 2018 the traders had greatly scaled back their pestering - on city orders because the tactic was depressing overall sales of tourist tat - which made wandering the souk a much more pleasant experience.

K: Madagascar, Malaysia, Mali

Obviously the last one is very much wishlist only right now.

L: Mexico, Morocco, Mozambique

The last one fulfils my safari & surf needs.

[Sporting]

Closing these groups in a couple of hours.

[Greenlander]

Again, this is from a male perspective, but travelling with my then girlfriend in Turkey and Morocco was hard work.

We were probably a touch naive in Istanbul as she was in her short skirt phase which added to being tall and blonde led to plenty of comments in her direction however a year later in Morocco the situation was way worse.

Being more prepared she was much more modestly dressed but that didn't stop the harassment. We arrived by ferry into Tangiers and it was constant from the moment we stepped ashore. Thinking a more upmarket hotel would be a better bet only made it worse. Returning from an evening out she again attracted the usual comment and we were followed all the way back to our hotel, the perpetrators followed us past the reception desk and up to our room, just standing there, outside our door. It was the single most distressing thing I've ever experienced on my travels. When I spoke to the owner he just gave me that 'what can I do about it shrug'. In amongst that stress, I proposed.

We left the next morning and took the ferry back to Spain and I've no intention of going back. We were divorced within five years. Morocoo is my nemesis.

[Sporting]

Latest results:

Group K:

Madagascar 14
Malaysia 10
Maldives 6
Mali 6
Macedonia (The former Yugoslav Republic of) 5
Malta 3
Malawi 2
Luxembourg 1
Marshall Islands 1
Lithuania 0

Group L:

Mexico 12
Mongolia 10
Morocco 8
Montenegro 6
Mauritius 4
Mozambique 3
Republic of Moldova 2
Monaco 2
Mauritania 1
Micronesia (Federated States of) 0

[Sporting]

Group M:

Myanmar
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
Norway



Group N:

Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Palau
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

I feel like I should have voted for Lithuania now, as it doesn't deserve nil points. It really is a lovely place to visit.

[Sporting]

I feel like I should have voted for Lithuania now, as it doesn't deserve nil points. It really is a lovely place to visit.

There could be a losers' contest at the end, as in the flags competition.

[pebblethefish]

20 countries to choose from and there's really nothing that grabs the imagination here...

M

Myanmar - more on the basis that it's near countries that I want to go to, so it might be alright
New Zealand - I went there as a grumpy 15 year old as my dad moved there, and was therefore determined to hate it, which I did. Might be time to give it another chance.
Norway - Never been to Scandinavia.

N

Panama - canal
Peru - nice football kit 42 years ago
Poland - I'm mildly flirting with a Polish girl so might have to go there to meet her parents one day. Well, it's as good a reason as either of the other two above.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Group M

I have zero interest in climbing mountains but I do like looking at them, so Nepal. New Zealand definitely, again to go and find some scenery, and ideally during a Lions tour. That makes the rest of this group quite hard. We've been to Oslo and cruised the fjords, and at €10 a pint I'm in no rush to go back. I do like the Dutch coast (more so than Amsterdam, which just seemed to me to be trying a little too hard to be cool, guys). Myanmar is way down on my list of places I want to visit in that bit of the world so I'm going to see what delights might await in Namibia.

Group N

I've been to Muscat and Khasab in Oman, I'd recommend the former only as the still sort of unspoilt version of an Arabian nights city compared to the jaw dropping bonkers nature of some of the other Gulf states but wouldn't go back from this list. Pakistan and Palestine not at present. That leaves a tough choice. I want to go through Panama, on a ship, but not necessarily "go" there, if that makes sense. I definitely want to go to Peru. The Philippines is meant to have a really unique cuisine based on a mix of Spanish and Oriental which is very intriguing, plus, you know, tropical beaches and jungle. That leaves me I think the choice of exploring some more of Poland- I've only been to Wroclaw and I had fun there.

[elguapo4]

Nepal

New Zealand

Norway, all for scenery.


Very little in group N to be honest,

Pakistan, to see where my sister spent 17 years

Peru, mountain scenery again

Poland, I've friends there and a permanent invitation to visit them.

[S. aureus]

Group M
I've only visited the Netherlands in this group, which, while being OK, didn't grab me enough that I feel the need to go back.
Of the rest, my friend who visited Namibia loved it, so that's one to consider. I am concerned that I'll have to rub shoulders with all the a-holes who feel they have to climb Everest in Nepal, otherwise that country would score a lot higher. Norway's scenery is a strong draw for me. Myanmar has the whole South-East Asia thing going for it. New Zealand, like Norway, scores highly on the scenery. I was interested to learn from wikipedia that "In an attempt to raise the profile of the country's tourism sector, a beauty pageant, the Miss Tourism Nigeria Pageant, was created in 2004.". This did not improve Nigeria's chances for me.

Myanmar
New Zealand
Norway


Group N
A friend who visited Port Moresby said it was the scariest place he'd ever been to, all in all probably a bit too rough for my tastes. I'm not sure how tourism in Palestine works, and how much of an issue having to go through Israel would be, otherwise would be good. I'll go for:
Oman
Peru
Poland

[Sporting]

Group M:

Myanmar
New Zealand
Norway

Scenery the reason for all, plus have a very good friend in NZ.


Group N:

Paraguay (does Jason have a spare bed?)
Peru
Pap?a New Guinea (nearly went to work for VSO here many, many years ago. Fell in love with a woman from Leigh-on-Sea; changed my mind. O life!)

Knew very little about Nauru, to be honest, so googled:

"Politically, Palau is a presidential republic in free association with the United States, which provides defense, funding, and access to social services."

Are the words "free association" in any way a sort of falsehood, as in free for one party, less so for the other?

[via vicaria]

Group M

Netherlands: was supposed to be on an Amsterdam trip about nowish, which has obviously not gone ahead. So I want to rectify that.

New Zealand: would love to go, but it's a very very long way. Everyone who goes seems to adore it though.

Norway: a big fan of the nordic countries. Norway isn't my favourite of them, but I've always wanted to go to the Lofoten islands and haven't gotten there yet.

Group N

Palau: some friends have been there on holiday and it looked lovely

Peru: for the historical sights if nothing else.

Poland: never been, but would like to.

This group was definitely the hardest to pick from as there are a number of group M's I'd have put ahead of all of these. Nigeria for one, as there's always something interesting and new coming out of Lagos, be it in the fashion world, comic books, or art. One thing this competition is making me realise is that there's a lot of countries that I'm actually not arsed about visiting, which is surprising as I do (or at least feel that I do) like to travel!

[Greenlander]

Group M:

New Zealand - spent a month travelling the whole country in my early 20s and loved every minute of it. That was over 25 years ago and I'd really like to see how it's changed. Cue jokes about it was the 50s then so probably mid-70s now.
Nepal - Kathmandu has always been one of those must visit locations. I'd like to look at Everest and some other tall mountains but have no desire to attempt much more than that.
Netherlands and Norway are neck and neck for that last vote. I've never been to either but the thought of Amsterdam edges out Oslo. So Netherlands wins.

Group N:

Peru - having said I wouldn't climb in the Himalayas, I'd quite happily give the Inca Trail up to Machu Picchu a go. Lima looks like one of the more interesting South American cities too.
Pakistan - just to watch a test match in Karachi.
Poland - for some football and Krakow.

[Balderdasha]

Group M

Myanmar. I'd like to visit more of South East Asia in general.

Nauru has fascinated me ever since I read this article:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...s-to-rags-tale

Particularly the bit about the country's immense wealth from guano being squandered on an ill-fated West End musical about Leonardo da Vinci. I occasionally have day dreams about running away and going and interviewing all the inhabitants about this debacle. I reckon it would make a great novel.

Nepal. After splitting up with the graffiti boyfriend I went on a 12 day trip to Nepal. Saw a little bit of Kathmandu and Pokhara, but mostly hiked up to Annapurna base camp. Stunningly beautiful country and I adore hiking. Also turned out to be an unexpectedly effective weight loss regime as some combination of a tummy bug and altitude sickness had me vomiting off the side of the mountain for a few days while still having to walk about ten miles a day. Got me right back to my pre-relationship slimness. Despite the bug, I loved the food though. The whole country is almost entirely vegetarian. Nearly spent a month teaching here during university but then there was some sort of terrorist attack in the aftermath of the crown Prince massacring his whole family the previous year, so that was cancelled and I went on a summer camp in China instead. Changed the whole course of my life.

Netherlands. Only been to Amsterdam, twice. Pleasant enough but didn't really capture my imagination. Would like to visit the rest of the country.

New Zealand. I'd really like to visit. I'm Facebook friends with a few Kiwis I've met on my travels so maybe I could look them up. The scenery really appeals.

Nicaragua. Sounds a bit too violent and gun-happy for my tastes.

Nigeria. The Nigerians I've met have always been confident, friendly and fantastic cooks. That alone is enough for me to want to visit. Lagos looks insane.

Norway. Would love to go and watch the Northern lights. Friends had their honeymoon in Svalbard, which I previously thought was a fictional place invented for the "His Dark Materials" series. Would love to see the global seed vault and some polar bears (from a safe distance).

This is quite a tough choice.

Nauru, Nepal and New Zealand win.

[Balderdasha]

Group N

Oman. My husband's parents were posted here while he was at university and he never got round to visiting them. They speak very highly of the beaches, the weather, the food. Would like to visit.

Pakistan. I feel like this should appeal to me more than it does.

Palestine. Currently if we go we'll be harassed as all ex-pat Palestinians are on an Israeli watchlist (not paranoid, has happened to my sister-in-law and family whenever they've visited). Would love to visit if any lasting form of peace is ever agreed. Husband still has family there too.

Panama. Did a flight transfer in an airport here once. Visited a Panama hat factory in Ecuador. Doesn't hugely appeal.

Papua New Guinea. Studied lots of different tribes and rituals here as part of my social anthropology degree. Love the flag. Would love to visit.

Peru. Loved the Inca Trail. Loved other Incan ruins at Saqsaywaman. Cusco is beautiful and fun. Did a great hike round Lake Titicaca. Would feature in the top three but I think I've probably seen the best parts of it already.

Philippines. Not keen on the current government. Perhaps in future if there's a regime change.

Poland. Enjoyed Krakow and Katowice. Less fun was being dumped in the small industrial town of Jaworzno while staying at my now-ex's Catholic family home. Followed by strained hiking, cheese eating and Scrabble playing at his family's cabin in the mountains. The ex also had an entire room filled with beetles, butterflies and insects, which was pretty creepy (he was an entomologist, among other professions). Would like to visit Warsaw but probably won't make the top three.

Oman, Palestine, and Papua New Guinea get my vote.

[ad hoc]

Group M
Nepal is great, and it's not all mountains, there's loads of other scenery too. And Kathmandu is a deeply fascinating city (maybe the most fascinating I've ever been to). I'd go back again in a heartbeat.

New Zealand, I've never visited (aside from Auckland airport) and would love to

After those two I'n torn between Norway and Myanmar and Nicaragua. Think I'll say Myanmar

Group N
Palestine obviously (though I would probably not get in since you have to pass through Israel and I'm active enough on social media to make that unlikely. I may get to find out in the not too distant future when the lockdown is over). Jerusalem is amazing. Hebron is shocking. Bethlehem, Jericho, and all that biblical stuff. Then the fact that the more people that visit the better, both for the economy and for getting the story out.

Never been to Peru, and it sounds amazing.

I think my third choice is PNG. Just because.