Contact tracing

[Jimski]

I was wondering if it was worth a separate thread (as the other is a monster), on Covid contact tracing.

Does anyone know much about the app being trialled on the Isle of Wight? Is it as problematic as is suggested in this article?
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/0...LE0-MoQ_OoEgXo

An app worked well in South Korea, but is old-fashioned contact tracing by humans actually a better idea (especially when it comes to convincing people to self-isolate)?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but wondered if others had knowledge or opinions.

[Ginger Yellow]

In the context of what the government already does in terms of surveillance, and moreover what it has the power to do, it doesn't seem massively problematic, though I'd definitely prefer the Google/Apple version. I don't know how close to operational the latter is though. All these Bluetooth LE systems seem to have pretty massive inherent limitations though, which I don't have much confidence in the government solving through intelligent coding. They're also very reliant on the public for uptake and compliance, and it's not clear how they might operate in the context of reopening.

I'm not sure how well the app did work in South Korea. It's pretty widely reported that "only" 20% of the public used it. I think they had a pretty massive humint operation too.

[ursus arctos]

I have no sense of the Isle of Wight trial, but do believe that over-reliance on technological fixes (often promoted by friends/supporters of government) has generally been one of the mistakes that has characterised the response in both the US and UK.

South Korea appears to have been much more successful, in part because it was part of a well though-out, well-coordinated and well explained strategy (that also involved humans to a significant extent) and because of the extremely tech forward and always on-line nature of South Korean society.

[Jimski]

Ah, I hadn't realised that South Korea had used extensive human tracing too. It certainly sounds to me if as if these apps might be useful but only in combination with some more nuanced human tracing.

[San Bernardhinault]

I know that California is talking about training 3,000 tracers a week through UCLA and UCSF to get a workforce of 10-20,000 humans doing a lot of the actual legwork.

I'm doubtful that the public would be willing to self-isolate from a little bleepy notification on their phone if there's not also some human follow-up.

[Snake Plissken]

I've tried to summarise my thoughts thus.

Given the restrictions mentioned in El Reg around the app needing to be foregrounded, I can't see how this is going to work. The Google/Apple APIs aren't even getting released until the middle of this month, which automatically means they will not be on end users phones for far too long and not enough of them (given the lack of support for older phones from Google, or rather, the handset manufacturers).

The centralisation is worrying, but not surprising. The app source code is apparently going onto GitHub, so at least we can see what is happening. But I would be very surprised if this was not easily de-anonymised, especially given the amount of data already available to the Government (and to be fair, Google, Facebook etc).

As someone who has de-Facebooked his life and is currently minimising using Google, then the idea of giving any data to the cunts behind Vote Leave / Cambridge Analytica etc is a complete non-starter. The House has already been told that the data will also be used for other research purposes.

This app should have been put in place two months ago.

It's likely another distraction / publicity stunt. If you were really conspiracy theory minded, it would be distraction to get people out and about and trying to get herd immunity.

There are far too many ways to prank the system. The excellent Ross Anderson pointed out the flaws a month ago - https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/...he-real-world/

[Jimski]

The Anderson article is an excellent read, I must say.

[Incandenza]

I wonder how many people there are that wouldn't be captured with cellphone tracking. Mrs. Inca's dad goes out a lot, and he has a iPhone, but he either leaves it in his car (if he remembers to take it with him) or only turns it on (yes, as in turning on the power) when he decides that he needs to use it. We tell him he should just leave it on and take it with him everywhere because what good is it in an emergency if you left it in the car or have to wait for it to turn on but he won't change his ways. I'm guessing there are other older people that also wouldn't be good candidates for GPS tracking.

[ursus arctos]

There is also a significant portion of the US population without smartphones

[Balderdasha]

There keeps being talk of recruiting thousands of people to help with contact tracing. Does anyone know where you can apply for this job? And if it could be done from home? I reckon I'd quite enjoy it and you'd at least feel helpful.

[Jimski]

Yeah, I agree, it sounds worth finding out about if you can. Is this not also something they could use the 750 000 NHS volunteers for?

[Jimski]

This app isn't sounding great, is it? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ct-tracing-app

[Snake Plissken]

Given the hints of an announcement about releasing the lockdown next week, they were never serious about it anyway. Yet more being seen to do something than actually doing something.

[pebblethefish]

I'm guessing there are other older people that also wouldn't be good candidates for GPS tracking.

Hence why we're trialling it on an island where most of the population are old and confused.

[Patrick Thistle]

If you were going to test technology somewhere so that it would fucking bomb you'd pick the Isle of Wight. Can you imagine any tech company choosing to test something there? No, me neither.

[Jimski]

Hmm, so they may switch to another app now? Or maybe not?

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...d-google-model

[Nocturnal Submission]

I haven't heard much about the new app lately but my son downloaded it a short while ago. It seems to have limited functionality at present but apparently it asks you if your health is in any way sub-100%. My son said that he'd had a bit of cough for a few days and was immediately offered a COVID-19 test at a site just a couple of miles away from where we live, which I thought was all rather impressive.

Obviously there's a long way to go yet but it looks as though the testing regimen is finally being scaled up and quite substantially so at that.

[Ginger Yellow]

This app isn't sounding great, is it? https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ct-tracing-app

To be fair, that limitation was inevitable when they decided not to use the Google/Apple approach (which, to be clear, they should have done). It handles the situation better than the Australian version did, but there's only so much you can do about the iOS problem otherwise.

[DCI Harry Batt]

So it isn't happening this month, they now never said it would happen this month (lying shits, once more) it isn't needed anyway for track and trace, and nothing depends on it or on track and trace anyway.

[DCI Harry Batt]

I haven't heard much about the new app lately but my son downloaded it a short while ago. It seems to have limited functionality at present but apparently it asks you if your health is in any way sub-100%. My son said that he'd had a bit of cough for a few days and was immediately offered a COVID-19 test at a site just a couple of miles away from where we live, which I thought was all rather impressive.

Obviously there's a long way to go yet but it looks as though the testing regimen is finally being scaled up and quite substantially so at that.

That sounds like the "Zoe" app, to me. Or it works like that anyway. I've been reporting on that for a while. Got a test coming in the post now, since I had a spell of dizziness on Saturday.

[Nocturnal Submission]

That sounds like the "Zoe" app, to me. Or it works like that anyway. I've been reporting on that for a while. Got a test coming in the post now, since I had a spell of dizziness on Saturday.

Could be. He thought it was the "main" tracking app but he wasn't 100% sure.

Good luck with your test. I must admit that I'm thinking that, if it's likely that I'll get the virus before any anti-virals or vaccines are developed (not sure what the odds are), that getting it around about now, while I'm feeling in good shape, have been swallowing vitamin D pills and soaking up the Spring sunshine, would be a good time. Rather now than during the Autumn or Winter when my immune system might well be in poorer shape, though avoiding it altogether or hanging on for a vaccine would be preferable, of course.